I just got warned of a "pattern" in my sick leave from taking the last few Fridays off for fatigue leave. How will this affect me, if at all?

[FloopThePig]

My level 4-6 has been working overtime 6 day work weeks lately. Just about everyone has been taking an extra day off because of it.

I have been using my earned sick time as fatigue leave for it like I thought I could. My supe just gave me a warning that it's looking like a pattern. Yes I planned on taking sick again this coming Friday because I have OT again at my shit facility and I'm tired.

In my opinion it's my alloted sick leave that I've got a right to use and I've been using it for fatigue leave like I've seen some people mention we can claim. I obviously can't do it every Friday because it will run out since I can't earn it fast enough.

I told the supe "yes I've been taking fatigue leave" for all this OT, I thought that was acceptable?"

He said he doesn't know about that and I've seen him right a warning letter or negative PROC for someone else before for the same issue.

My fac rep is not available these days so I'm looking on here for what is my right and what could happen? I'd like to transfer someday and I'm not the kind to take sick all the time, just lately with the increase in OT being assigned. So I really don't want to be known as a bad employee that might affect a transfer in the future. I also don't want suspension.

I can't imagine y'all working level 10-12 with 6 days and getting some kind of message like this. I'm pretty fed up with this shit. Honestly the supe could fill in if I call out sick so I don't see what the issue is.

My fac rep also agreed with management that we can't take annual right now during our busier traffic scenario or else I'd just as easily be requesting that.

How do I combat this if I take sick and he gives me a meeting and a bad PROC?

How well does "fatigue leave" stand in this argument?

What from the union book can I throw at my supe if he causes a problem?

 

[CaptainObvious]

Why wouldn’t you bang a normal day so you can keep OT pay. Also every single week on the same day is definitely a pattern. Mix it up

 

[FloopThePig]

Why wouldn’t you bang a normal day so you can keep OT pay. Also every single week on the same day is definitely a pattern. Mix it up

huh? Oh maybe you mean a real sat/sun off. I have mid week RDOs.

Well if the FAA keeps working us mandatory OT every week and my sick time is limited anyway and I'll be forced to not have any left, what does it matter how I use it? I'm just trying to get my 2-day weekends while I have the leave.

Why is a "pattern" an issue when it's a finite amount of leave that won't allow me to keep the pattern up?

 

[ManBearPig]

What do you mean your facrep isn't available??

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

You must be new here.

Calling in sick the same day every week is definitely a pattern. The lack of a pattern is a pattern. You are headed towards a sick leave abuse letter. Not a big deal other than they can require a doctor's note every time you use sick leave for a period of time after that. Also if you call in sick on OT you shouldn't actually be charged sick leave and your balance isn't going down. And if your FacRep isn't available they're supposed to designate someone to cover for them who is.

 

[FloopThePig]

What do you mean your facrep isn't available??

PM'd you because as much as I'd like to share I'm not sure if I'm at liberty to

You must be new here.

Calling in sick the same day every week is definitely a pattern. The lack of a pattern is a pattern. You are headed towards a sick leave abuse letter. Not a big deal other than they can require a doctor's note every time you use sick leave for a period of time after that. Also if you call in sick on OT you shouldn't actually be charged sick leave and your balance isn't going down. And if your FacRep isn't available they're supposed to designate someone to cover for them who is.

So can I just call off on my Monday this time or will that somehow be a Friday>Monday biweekly pattern all of a sudden?

 

[Nothanks]

First of all, if you invoke your right to fatigue leave and do it properly you can use annual leave for it

You can’t just call in sick and say it’s fatigue leave.

If you use “sick leave” whether you burn it or not, you could be found to be abusing it.

Yes many level 10-12s have people getting sick leave counseling and sick leave restrictions letters. ( they are different)

Your facrep is always available. If they aren’t, call your aRVP

 

[FloopThePig]

You must be new here.

Calling in sick the same day every week is definitely a pattern. The lack of a pattern is a pattern. You are headed towards a sick leave abuse letter. Not a big deal other than they can require a doctor's note every time you use sick leave for a period of time after that. Also if you call in sick on OT you shouldn't actually be charged sick leave and your balance isn't going down. And if your FacRep isn't available they're supposed to designate someone to cover for them who is.

How do I fight such a letter saying it's bullshit and I'm within my right to use my leave?

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

So can I just call off on my Monday this time or will that somehow be a Friday>Monday biweekly pattern all of a sudden?

No. Because being in conjunction with your RDOs is still considered a pattern

 

[FloopThePig]

No. Because being in conjunction with your RDOs is still considered a pattern

I'm not angry with you at all but this just sounds like they can make up "anything" is a pattern. WTF IS THE POINT OF LEAVE? WE ARE HUMANS WORKING "THE MOST STRESSFUL, SAFETY INTENSIVE JOB"
Let me use my damn leave

Again not yelling at you, but I feel like that's what I'd want argued if I get NATCA involved. I'm just trying to enjoy time where I can find it.

 

[Soul_Controller]

How do I fight such a letter saying it's bullshit and I'm within my right to use my leave?

You don't. You work your assigned shifts like a normal person.

Sometimes ATMs will fire warning shots and tell FLMs to find any pattern they can and issue counseling. So, is this a blanket facility thing, or are you in particular getting counseled? If it's the former, I wouldn't worry a whole lot. If it's the latter, the FacRep and facility might be on the agency's side.

 

[FloopThePig]

You don't. You work your assigned shifts like a normal person.

Sometimes ATMs will fire warning shots and tell FLMs to find any pattern they can and issue counseling. So, is this a blanket facility thing, or are you in particular getting counseled? If it's the former, I wouldn't worry a whole lot. If it's the latter, the FacRep and facility might be on the agency's side.

We've lost two people that are getting paid for free time off due to drug/alcohol related charges.

Why am I being punished for using my earned time off and they don't have to use their's?

Why would NATCA defend them that super serious offense, but they wouldn't defend me for being fatigued from the OT assigned for their irresponsible absence?

I don't take sick often, it's just lately, so I hate to speak for myself on that, but I don't see myself as a problem child for sick leave. I even told the supe that. I never took sick often in the past, just lately because of the situation

 

[ATCJoe85]

Assuming you're calling out on your 6th day every week, I'd concur that it's "bullshit". The pattern is that by your 6th day of work, you're fatigued.

But you're right that if your OT is on your second RDO (so if you were Mon-Fri, it'd be Sun-Fri), you'll run out of sick leave.

Can't say for sure, but it may just be that NATCA isnt defending you because at this time, it's just a letter, and it'd be a waste of their energy.

 

[ClearanceClarence]

A lot of rookie mistakes being made here.

#1: Like others mentioned, dealing with 6 day weeks and banging to manage is it common. But you do have to switch it up. Supes are directed by upper management to search for “patterns” and if you’re calling in on the same day every single week, they’re going to have a problem with that.

#2: If they do confront you about it, never admit you’re doing it on purpose. Even if you think it’s justified. That only gives them more ammo for their idea that you’re abusing SL. “I was temporarily incapacitated and unable to perform ATC duties on those days” is perfectly acceptable. Or just saying nothing at all.

#3: Going the route of claiming fatigue is a dangerous game to play. Management is stupid and won’t see it as ‘oh, the employees are tired from mandatory 6 day work weeks.’ Their response is going to be ‘why is this employee saying he’s constantly fatigued? He must have a medical issue that needs to be reviewed. Better pull his clearance.’

Just bang on a different day of the week and not every single week and you’ll likely avoid issues.

 

[FloopThePig]

A lot of rookie mistakes being made here.

#1: Like others mentioned, dealing with 6 day weeks and banging to manage is it common. But you do have to switch it up. Supes are directed by upper management to search for “patterns” and if you’re calling in on the same day every single week, they’re going to have a problem with that.

#2: If they do confront you about it, never admit you’re doing it on purpose. Even if you think it’s justified. That only gives them more ammo for their idea that you’re abusing SL. “I was temporarily incapacitated and unable to perform ATC duties on those days” is perfectly acceptable. Or just saying nothing at all.

#3: Going the route of claiming fatigue is a dangerous game to play. Management is stupid and won’t see it as ‘oh, the employees are tired from mandatory 6 day work weeks.’ Their response is going to be ‘why is this employee saying he’s constantly fatigued? He must have a medical issue that needs to be reviewed. Better pull his clearance.’

Just bang on a different day of the week and not every single week and you’ll likely avoid issues.

I guess I'll try to do that. I understand everyone is trying to tell me the "rules of the game", but I'm here trying to argue "why is it a game in the first place?"

We have a union that I've been forking over for since I got in like most. Why can't the union just say "listen management, fuck off. It's their leave, that have a right to use it, and you guys are working all these controllers to the bone with 6 days constantly. That's not safe for airplanes or themselves."

We've got a guy that's off for doing illegal drugs. Doesn't even have to come into work, getting paid as far as I know until it's figured out.

Another had something similar alcohol related, comes to work, sits for an hour, management says go home. Still gets paid 8 hours a day while it's figured out.

Both things that are strictly not allowed, but "hey go home since you can't work, here's your pay".

Ive heard others make obscene comments trying to be funny during meetings. Refresher on keeping airplanes apart, controller comments an obscene comment stating they will do the opposite of that. Supe is right there, chuckles along with it. No repercussions.


I've always tried to be very professional. I come to work I do my job, I refresh up on the 7110, do some training the trainees, I go home. But because I take 3 fucking sick days in a row, that's much worse and worthy of a consequence.

I'm just fed up. I take this job very seriously unlike the few mentioned. This is just a slap in the face.

 

[ClearanceClarence]

I guess I'll try to do that. I understand everyone is trying to tell me the "rules of the game", but I'm here trying to argue "why is it a game in the first place?"

We have a union that I've been forking over for since I got in like most. Why can't the union just say "listen management, fuck off. It's their leave, that have a right to use it, and you guys are working all these controllers to the bone with 6 days constantly. That's not safe for airplanes or themselves."

We've got a guy that's off for doing illegal drugs. Doesn't even have to come into work, getting paid as far as I know until it's figured out.

Another had something similar alcohol related, comes to work, sits for an hour, management says go home. Still gets paid 8 hours a day while it's figured out.

Both things that are strictly not allowed, but "hey go home since you can't work, here's your pay".

Ive heard others make obscene comments trying to be funny during meetings. Refresher on keeping airplanes apart, controller comments an obscene comment stating they will do the opposite of that. Supe is right there, chuckles along with it. No repercussions.


I've always tried to be very professional. I come to work I do my job, I refresh up on the 7110, do some training the trainees, I go home. But because I take 3 fucking sick days in a row, that's much worse and worthy of a consequence.

I'm just fed up. I take this job very seriously unlike the few mentioned. This is just a slap in the face.

I don’t disagree with you, but the argument that 6 day work weeks are fatigue inducing and unsustainable is not something an individual controller, or even a facility, is going to win. That’s a battle that needs to be happening by the union at the national level. It definitely isn’t being pushed hard enough and that’s something to take into account with the upcoming NATCA elections. As an individual controller though, the best thing you can do is “play the game” do what you need to do, and not cause any trouble for yourself.

 

[KP-ATC]

I guess I'll try to do that. I understand everyone is trying to tell me the "rules of the game", but I'm here trying to argue "why is it a game in the first place?"

We have a union that I've been forking over for since I got in like most. Why can't the union just say "listen management, fuck off. It's their leave, that have a right to use it, and you guys are working all these controllers to the bone with 6 days constantly. That's not safe for airplanes or themselves."

We've got a guy that's off for doing illegal drugs. Doesn't even have to come into work, getting paid as far as I know until it's figured out.

Another had something similar alcohol related, comes to work, sits for an hour, management says go home. Still gets paid 8 hours a day while it's figured out.

Both things that are strictly not allowed, but "hey go home since you can't work, here's your pay".

Ive heard others make obscene comments trying to be funny during meetings. Refresher on keeping airplanes apart, controller comments an obscene comment stating they will do the opposite of that. Supe is right there, chuckles along with it. No repercussions.


I've always tried to be very professional. I come to work I do my job, I refresh up on the 7110, do some training the trainees, I go home. But because I take 3 fucking sick days in a row, that's much worse and worthy of a consequence.

I'm just fed up. I take this job very seriously unlike the few mentioned. This is just a slap in the face.

Technically your sick leave balance isn't "yours" in the way that an annual leave balance is. If you resign, you are not paid out for a sick leave balance.

 

[123456]

Most managers aren’t hunting for abuse, it creates more work for us to write you up. Chances are your fellow CPCs are alerting them to the abuse because they’re the ones that get hurt when you don't work. Just work some of your shifts, call out on some, don't be the asshole that never works an OT.

 

[FloopThePig]

Most managers aren’t hunting for abuse, it creates more work for us to write you up. Chances are your fellow CPCs are alerting them to the abuse because they’re the ones that get hurt when you don't work. Just work some of your shifts, call out on some, don't be the asshole that never works an OT.

I'm the "asshole" that always takes the OT because the other assholes can't stay away from heroin and meth, and we have the staffing if I call out on the day I want to that we won't need to call in OT for my call off so idek why it matters if it's a pattern if there is staffing. The other guys don't even want the OT. I was trying to help out, but I've always been told not to be loyal to companies because they don't give a shit about the employee and it shows.

 

[123456]

I'm the "asshole" that always takes the OT because the other assholes can't stay away from heroin and meth, and we have the staffing if I call out on the day I want to that we won't need to call in OT for my call off so idek why it matters if it's a pattern if there is staffing. The other guys don't even want the OT. I was trying to help out, but I've always been told not to be loyal to companies because they don't give a shit about the employee and it shows.

You’re more of a dumbass than an asshole. If you didn't say “fatigue” your ATM probably would have just let the complaint go without a second thought. Thousands of controllers are all in the same boat as you, but only the dumb ones get in trouble. Think about it.