New mid rules

[32andBelow]

So can we use this mou to stop them from opening ran positions in the middle of the day to increase TOP?!

 

[Nothanks]

So can we use this mou to stop them from opening ran positions in the middle of the day to increase TOP?!

It’s a foot in the door

 

[bradlutz]

So can we use this mou to stop them from opening ran positions in the middle of the day to increase TOP?!

I wish we had the bodies to open positions when we need them.

 

[32andBelow]

I wish we had the bodies to open positions when we need them.

It’s just as bad when you have bodies then they make you split off a sector with 1 plane.

 

[LennyA21]

Wait are these imposed work rules or did the FAA collaborate with Nick on this?

 

[32andBelow]

Wait are these imposed work rules or did the FAA collaborate with Nick on this?

Am I missing something? This like rescinds the Vegas mou

 

[LennyA21]

Am I missing something? This like rescinds the Vegas mou

Correct, to my knowledge NATCA was not part of the change in these procedures. Oh how the tables have turned

 

[Move78]

It’s a retraction of previous restrictions not an imposition of new restrictions. Also it’s “well well well. How the turn tables………”

 

[GMX]

Facilities should not automatically combine down to one position at the start of the midnight shift.

So...a 2215-0615 mid shouldn't combine at 2215. Well how about 2216?

2216-0215 and 0215-0615 fatigue mitigation. That first guy will just have to take a 1 minute penalty to his break or grieve it, right?

 

[LennyA21]

It’s a retraction of previous restrictions not an imposition of new restrictions. Also it’s “well well well. How the turn tables………”

The updated Management Responsibilities for Midnight Shifts dated November 14, 2024 now requires that "Proper resource management is critical to the safety and efficiency of air traffic services. Staffing positions based on demand and providing full air traffic services is paramount on every shift, including the midnight shift. Facilities should not automatically combine down to one position at the start of the midnight shift.



Each facility must look at the historical trends and dynamically determine the appropriate position staffing expectations for the duration of each midnight shift to ensure full air traffic services are provided.”

That’s a whole change homie. When something says it doesn’t read this anymore it now reads this that’s called a change.

 

[Soul_Controller]

Correct, to my knowledge NATCA was not part of the change in these procedures. Oh how the tables have turned

There was never NATCA involvement in the first place. It was basically nationwide shift guidance.

 

[LennyA21]

There was never NATCA involvement in the first place. It was basically nationwide shift guidance.

So the fatigue rules were also just nationwide shift guidance?

 

[Soul_Controller]

So the fatigue rules were also just nationwide shift guidance?

There is a fatigue MOU. But the whole starting your break after midnight/hour and a half after shift start was not an MOU

 

[GMX]

So the fatigue rules were also just nationwide shift guidance?

When fatigue mitigation came out, if I remember correctly it was all just a "recommendation" from a memo, not some kind of official Order. 2 hours to "rest" (they didn't want to say "sleep") and 30 minutes to recover from "sleep inertia" (they said "sleep" there lol). One didn't even have to do fatigue mitigation if they didn't want to.

Many managers took this as gospel of strictly NO MORE than 2.5 hours on break and absolutely no combining with other breaks (like a meal break between 4th-6th hour) and a way to force "both controllers back before the AM shift arrives". So dumb. When the Vegas rules came out it cemented their heavy handedness and hamstrung controllers to blanket rules that further contributed to fatigue. Especially at places where controllers had to work regular double or even triple mids.

 

[CoffeeIV]

Things improve. People complain they improved.

You guys are hilarious.

 

[+TSRA]

I think the 2018 memo came about because people weren't arriving for their shifts or they were leaving the facility half way through their shifts during the mids and signing each other in/out.

I could have used better language/sentence structure to explain what I mean but I'm tired.

 

[CoffeeIV]

I think the 2018 memo came about because people weren't arriving for their shifts or they were leaving the facility half way through their shifts during the mids and signing each other in/out.

I could have used better language/sentence structure to explain what I mean but I'm tired.

Vegas Chick got drunk on Nov 7, 2018. The new rule came out Nov 9th, 2018.

It was her fault.

Some facilities were doing like you said but all that resulted in was some places briefing you're 8 for 8. Some facilities would just straight up not have people show up at all for their mids. IE: You work tonight, Ill work all of tomorrow, etc etc. And sign each other in.

 

[Move78]

I think the 2018 memo came about because people weren't arriving for their shifts or they were leaving the facility half way through their shifts during the mids and signing each other in/out.

I could have used better language/sentence structure to explain what I mean but I'm tired.

The memo was because of the Vegas chick. To ensure you’re not alone to start the shift. It didn’t effect all facilities

 

[Phillytroll69]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. This all stems from doing more with less. The old recommendations (2018?) recommendations were to increase t.o.p. and efficiency and blah blah

They can disguise it however you want (fatigue, collaborating, etc)

Can't complain about fatigue and staffing and have people on break 6 hours zny

 

[Wizard]

Rich Santa failed again.