New mid rules

[GulfBravoPapa]

Has anyone else's facility taken the stance that positions need to be split prior to the start of the day shift? My facility is saying the second mid controller must come back and open a second radar position prior to the first day shifter coming in. First day shift is 530, they typically work half an hour of credit and come in at 500 due to a previous stupid rule by our ATM so positions have to be split at 4:45... It seems insane to me.

 

[rugbydog11]

we have "when first day shift arrives, LC and RADAR must be staffed. Tracon still must be open by 0630L"

 

[GMX]

Our first morning shift starts at 0545-0600 with 2 people, depending on flex time. A lot of people do credit starting from 0530. They told us if 1 or 2 people come in prior to 0600, they shall not take 1 position or both positions until the 2nd mid person is back. The normal mid ends at 0615-0630, depending if flex time was used, so many of the 2nd break mid shifters don't come back until 0600. So now, 1 or 2 fresh people can show up at 0530 and stand there while a tired mid person works two positions in front of them.

 

[Maintainvfr]

Our first morning shift starts at 0545-0600 with 2 people, depending on flex time. A lot of people do credit starting from 0530. They told us if 1 or 2 people come in prior to 0600, they shall not take 1 position or both positions until the 2nd mid person is back. The normal mid ends at 0615-0630, depending if flex time was used, so many of the 2nd break mid shifters don't come back until 0600. So now, 1 or 2 fresh people can show up at 0530 and stand there while a tired mid person works two positions in front of them.

Why can't the first day shifter open up the 2nd position instead of the other mid guy? Another brilliant FAA rule

 

[DowntownTG]

Same boat as y'all. Morning shifts start at 545-600L. Second mid'er needs to come back at 530L to open up second position.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Well this is definitely not how I expected the replies to go...

I know of one facility that allows the positions to be split by the day shift controller. Same facility also considers data/CIC as a split position.

 

[CF]

We have 2 come in at 530 no flex and they take both positions from the single mid controller. Second mid person does not return.

 

[GMX]

Why can't the first day shifter open up the 2nd position instead of the other mid guy? Another brilliant FAA rule

I think it's been getting interpreted differently all over. We were also told that if two proposals print we have to call the 2nd person back from break. If they haven't completed their full 2.5 hours of fatigue mitigation, so be it. Seems legit...

EDIT: They told us the 1st guy can't take one of the positions (or both AM shifts take both) because the other mid guy HAS to come back and be on the dash 10 log so mgmt can validate and send to HQ to prove they came back. This is only for the 2230-0630 shift though, the bi-weekly 2400-0800 mid is exempt; also seems legit...

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

I think it's been getting interpreted differently all over. We were also told that if two proposals print we have to call the 2nd person back from break. If they haven't completed their full 2.5 hours of fatigue mitigation, so be it. Seems legit...

What? That is insane?!

 

[vectorwagon]

Thanks a lot drunk Vegas controller , jesus this crap is ridiculous.

 

[Maintainvfr]

This stuff is crazy, there no way this is the intent of the changes

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

I know that it isn't a MOU but was there a national memo or anything put out in regards to these new procedures? I've seen various regional emails but nothing national.

 

[CF]

I know that it isn't a MOU but was there a national memo or anything put out in regards to these new procedures? I've seen various regional emails but nothing national.

My ATM face to face briefed all of our controllers and had us sign a memo that was very specific about laying out the new requirements, no idea where it originated but it was an official memo with FAA header and all.

 

[GMX]

There was an FAA Memorandum dated Nov 9, 2018 from Glen A. Martin, Vice President, Air Traffic Service, AJT-0 that was put out. Management didn't provide us with this letter but at some locations NATCA did.

At my facility, we all got face-to-face briefings but I didn't nor anyone I know of signed anything.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Just got an email from my local union that the FAA's new stance on the mid shift rules (two people until midnight or an hour and a half after the shift starts whichever is later) is that anyone caught breaking the rules will no longer receive a 60 day suspension but will instead be terminated.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

Just got an email from my local union that the FAA's new stance on the mid shift rules (two people until midnight or an hour and a half after the shift starts whichever is later) is that anyone caught breaking the rules will no longer receive a 60 day suspension but will instead be terminated.

 

[liter a cola]

Just got an email from my local union that the FAA's new stance on the mid shift rules (two people until midnight or an hour and a half after the shift starts whichever is later) is that anyone caught breaking the rules will no longer receive a 60 day suspension but will instead be terminated.

So much for "it's impossible to terminate government employees"

 

[Phillyman2633]

I would like to see where this falls in the HRRPM table of "Immediately terminatable offenses" lmao

 

[PushingTin]

Just got an email from my local union that the FAA's new stance on the mid shift rules (two people until midnight or an hour and a half after the shift starts whichever is later) is that anyone caught breaking the rules will no longer receive a 60 day suspension but will instead be terminated.

Sounds like your rep is prone to using hyperbole.... lol i like it too, just not when its about ending peoples careers. 0 chance anyone gets terminated merely for violating some new ambiguous knee jerk rule surrounded by grey.

Thanks a lot drunk Vegas controller , jesus this crap is ridiculous.

Leave *** alone! ?

We have 2 come in at 530 no flex and they take both positions from the single mid controller. Second mid person does not return.

I know of several facilities where it is standard ops for 2nd person not to return. When in Rome i guess...but I would not like that if I was the person who worked 2nd. Always shitty when an early SL or 2 happens and you're stuck with the annoying morning push tired w a headache working everything like WTF get me outta here already.

I also think most ATMS and FLMS are willfully ignorant of how the mids REALLY get worked. Its always funny when something happens and suddenly they are clutching their pearls and apalled and how could this be happening! And yer like, breh this been happening for 20 years where u been!

I would like to see where this falls in the HRRPM table of "Immediately terminatable offenses" lmao

LOL i know right. It's right next to the one that says not paying attention and having a horrific deal gets you an extra break to do your ATSAP...

 

[Homsar]

Leave *** alone! ?

Did you do a "Leave Britney Alone" joke that they thought was the name of the Vegas controller (which it's not), and then they edited it out? Bahahah