Paid Parental Leave

[EightTwoSierra]

I’ve got an ATM who is a huge headache. Been a problem since day 1 on every single front creating hell for us. I’m wanting an intermittent schedule for PPL this coming year. It sounds like he can deny it in theory. But he denies everything, the union has to fight him on every single ounce of leave requested.. We even got shot down initially to get leave to go vote when we had extra people for the day. It was initially denied until higher ups in the union slapped it down. So what’s the process to try and get intermittent PPL if he will play extreme hardball against it.. Or am I just screwed.

 

[Nothanks]

I’ve got an ATM who is a huge headache. Been a problem since day 1 on every single front creating hell for us. I’m wanting an intermittent schedule for PPL this coming year. It sounds like he can deny it in theory. But he denies everything, the union has to fight him on every single ounce of leave requested.. We even got shot down initially to get leave to go vote when we had extra people for the day. It was initially denied until higher ups in the union slapped it down. So what’s the process to try and get intermittent PPL if he will play extreme hardball against it.. Or am I just screwed.

What region

 

[Balls2/H]

I’ve got an ATM who is a huge headache. Been a problem since day 1 on every single front creating hell for us. I’m wanting an intermittent schedule for PPL this coming year. It sounds like he can deny it in theory. But he denies everything, the union has to fight him on every single ounce of leave requested.. We even got shot down initially to get leave to go vote when we had extra people for the day. It was initially denied until higher ups in the union slapped it down. So what’s the process to try and get intermittent PPL if he will play extreme hardball against it.. Or am I just screwed.

You submit the dates requested to your supervisor with the PPL request form. They have 7 days to approve/deny. Use a separate paper to attach dates if you know them ahead of time. If your supervisor denies then the fight starts there.

My facility has told BUEs the agency views it as 60 shifts to be used on. Some do it all at once, some don’t. Some of the ones that don’t have had pay issues so watch for that. I’ve even heard some do 12 weeks in a row and they pick an OT shift to work each week to stay current and cover

 

[the inquirer]

They cannot deny fmla leave. Go into opm and read the laws for yourself. The more educated you are, the better off you will be and you can fight your own fight. Ppl is just the method used to for paying you for fmla. You can work 4 hour days if you wanted to.

 

[EightTwoSierra]

What region

Western.. Southern California area.

They cannot deny fmla leave. Go into opm and read the laws for yourself. The more educated you are, the better off you will be and you can fight your own fight. Ppl is just the method used to for paying you for fmla. You can work 4 hour days if you wanted to.

I’m going to do just that. Where is this coming from though because it’s all over. If you come back from PPL at any point after the birth, the rest of the time approved is up to the ATM. It doesn’t make sense to me. But what are they translating incorrectly because I want this shut down ASAP. Our ATM is out to get us, doesn’t seem fair. My old ATM would have approved intermittent use automatically.

 

[the inquirer]

I’m going to do just that. Where is this coming from though because it’s all over. If you come back from PPL at any point after the birth, the rest of the time approved is up to the ATM. It doesn’t make sense to me. But what are they translating incorrectly because I want this shut down ASAP. Our ATM is out to get us, doesn’t seem fair. My old ATM would have approved intermittent use automatically.

It’s relatively easy to find. Start reading for yourself. I’ll see if I can look it up in the next few days. I’m in the same region as you.

 

[Balls2/H]

Western.. Southern California area.

Paper trail it to get it out of the facility if you have to. SCT has done PPL + voluntary OT each week to stay current. You can matter the FMLA and PPL rules in less than an hour and you’ll meet idiots along the way

 

[Somenewguy]

"However, employees may use FMLA leave intermittently or on a reduced leave schedule for bonding with a newborn or newly placed child only if they and their employer agree."

This is from the department of labor website.

 

[32andBelow]

They can’t deny continuous ppl. You have to get intermittent ppl approved. I did it and had to do paperwork

 

[EightTwoSierra]

Paper trail it to get it out of the facility if you have to. SCT has done PPL + voluntary OT each week to stay current. You can matter the FMLA and PPL rules in less than an hour and you’ll meet idiots along the way

Perfect. I’m gonna do that. I really figured I could use other facilities against him to force him to approved. Thanks!

"However, employees may use FMLA leave intermittently or on a reduced leave schedule for bonding with a newborn or newly placed child only if they and their employer agree."

This is from the department of labor website.

Yeah and that’s my problem. My ATM will deny. But can the AGM approve if raised to them? Or GM? Just because I’ve got a bad ATM seems kinda messed up if he disagrees out of spite.

 

[32andBelow]

Perfect. I’m gonna do that. I really figured I could use other facilities against him to force him to approved. Thanks!

Yeah and that’s my problem. My ATM will deny. But can the AGM approve if raised to them? Or GM? Just because I’ve got a bad ATM seems kinda messed up if he disagrees out of spite.

There’s really no reason to deny it. What does your union rep say? Most places are approving it so you can keep currency.

 

[Spoony90]

There’s something going around in the FAA among managers. I had a supe try to do the same and he said they’re trying to make PPL a lot harder to use. I put PPL leave the night before and it’s always approved. It’s FMLA. They can’t deny it. A newborn can keep you awake all night, sometimes you can’t plan the PPL and you gotta use it at 0300 for your 0700 shift 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[EightTwoSierra]

There’s really no reason to deny it. What does your union rep say? Most places are approving it so you can keep currency.

Rep reached out to a higher up and he told him it’s 100% up to the ATM if he denies additional PPL if I show my face when I come back to the facility. And he will. He makes everything as difficult for us as humanly possible. It still makes zero sense to me that he can deny it this easily. Something somewhere is wrong and people are getting wires crossed. I need a NATCA person who is heavily schooled in this as to why my ATM can be a jerk, but everyone else I talk to has gotten intermittent PPL… I’m gonna keep looking.

 

[Spaceforce]

Rep reached out to a higher up and he told him it’s 100% up to the ATM if he denies additional PPL if I show my face when I come back to the facility. And he will. He makes everything as difficult for us as humanly possible. It still makes zero sense to me that he can deny it this easily. Something somewhere is wrong and people are getting wires crossed. I need a NATCA person who is heavily schooled in this as to why my ATM can be a jerk, but everyone else I talk to has gotten intermittent PPL… I’m gonna keep looking.

Take PPL, come back, take FMLA and request PPL. PPL is just the type leave being used on FMLA.

*Not sure if that would work, don’t know if it works, FMLA is the key to life*

 

[Acquired Taste]

Look, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but this thread made me do my own research and unfortunately, the Agency can deny the use of intermittent PPL and you can't use FMLA and substitute in PPL to get around it unless you meet specific criteria. The opm site specifies that if the agency and employee both agree to it, you can use intermittent ppl but you aren't entitled to do it. I attached the section that spells it all out.

 

[ZuluZulu]

https://www.natca.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/PPL-Revision-MOU-Final-051624.pdf

This is our MOU. Section 3 states that intermittent requests shall not be unreasonably denied.

 

[Acquired Taste]

https://www.natca.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/PPL-Revision-MOU-Final-051624.pdf

This is our MOU. Section 3 states that intermittent requests shall not be unreasonably denied.

Sure, it says you can sub PPL for any approved FMLA leave, including intermittent. But to be entitled to have intermittent fmla leave approved, you have to meet the criteria which is you, your spouse, kid, parent, etc... have a serious health condition or you're getting deployed. Other than that, intermittent fmla doesn't have to be approved. They can say staffing and workload don't allow for intermittent use if your facility isn't super fat staffed, and can "reasonably" deny your intermittent fmla.

 

[ZuluZulu]

Sure, it says you can sub PPL for any approved FMLA leave, including intermittent. But to be entitled to have intermittent fmla leave approved, you have to meet the criteria which is you, your spouse, kid, parent, etc... have a serious health condition or you're getting deployed. Other than that, intermittent fmla doesn't have to be approved. They can say staffing and workload don't allow for intermittent use if your facility isn't super fat staffed, and can "reasonably" deny your intermittent fmla.

My posting the MOU wasn’t for you it was for the individual asking for help. Your take of supporting the agency in denying intermittent FMLA is a weird one but you do you. I prefer to take the side of the BUE. If one is eligible for FMLA it is always approved. Thats the whole point of the law.

The agency saying an employee can take 12 weeks consecutive but not intermittent is unreasonable.

 

[Somenewguy]

My posting the MOU wasn’t for you it was for the individual asking for help. Your take of supporting the agency in denying intermittent FMLA is a weird one but you do you. I prefer to take the side of the BUE. If one is eligible for FMLA it is always approved. Thats the whole point of the law.

The agency saying an employee can take 12 weeks consecutive but not intermittent is unreasonable.

Nobody is trying to side with the Agency, people are just trying to inform the BUE what the actual rules are so they can try to form their best defense.

There are different types of intermittent FMLA, and they are not subject to the same automatic approval. So what you said is factually incorrect.

If I were the BUE I would use last minute sick or fatigue leave to fill in the gaps whenever PPL was denied and you were scheduled to work. In addition, I would submit multiple schedules of PPL use that may work for you. If the agency denied multiple requests, that builds more evidence that they are unreasonably denying your leave.

 

[32andBelow]

Nobody is trying to side with the Agency, people are just trying to inform the BUE what the actual rules are so they can try to form their best defense.

There are different types of intermittent FMLA, and they are not subject to the same automatic approval. So what you said is factually incorrect.

If I were the BUE I would use last minute sick or fatigue leave to fill in the gaps whenever PPL was denied and you were scheduled to work. In addition, I would submit multiple schedules of PPL use that may work for you. If the agency denied multiple requests, that builds more evidence that they are unreasonably denying your leave.

I had to get intermittent ppl approved before we even got to schedules. The real question here is where tf is this guys rep