Rich Santa - Accomplishments, FAA Reauthorization, and Pay. Focus on the Issues!

[ManBearPig]

Movements about to be paused for 4-5 years bro lol. Once the new CWRG numbers hit only 3 facilities can release if they keep the current rules. Which they will, as the FAA and NATCA agree is one of the only ways to catch up on staffing and they don’t think enough people have the balls to quit.

I mean the rules change every panel at this point.

What's your inside info?

 

[Nothanks]

Transfers are inhibited. Also them doing their job can’t be a big “win” for us

transfer arent inhibited? That’s made up

 

[Bandit117]

transfer arent inhibited? That’s made up

The number of controllers who can move, vs who want to move is incredibly skewed, in the wrong direction.

Meanwhile, almost no facility has staffing, so vacancies abound. There’s not many facilities that matter that are above 95, heck even 90% staffing. Even many the ones that are “better” staffing are still on 6 day workweeks.

 

[Nothanks]

The number of controllers who can move, vs who want to move is incredibly skewed, in the wrong direction.

Meanwhile, almost no facility has staffing, so vacancies abound. There’s not many facilities that matter that are above 95, heck even 90% staffing. Even many the ones that are “better” staffing are still on 6 day workweeks.

no arguments from me, good thing we got finance to report our staffing properly now

 

[HurryUpandWait]

Transfers are inhibited. Also them doing their job can’t be a big “win” for us

Do you realize what a union does? Employer agrees with Bargaining Unit to operate within these set of rules- Employee doesn’t operate in these set of rules- Union rebuttals and forces Employer to go back and work within the rules..

Bear in mind, NATCA has “collaborated” to make NCEPT as broken as it is now. An example being implementing the non-waiverable 85% to target release threshold when we used to use the national average. Yet OSs and other prospective management plebs get staffing deviations? Are we gonna pretend like there aren’t dozens taking sup gigs because NCEPT is collaboratively useless?

And I’m not saying to “let everyone move.” In prior comments I proposed an idea to not use the national average with CRWG numbers for a one year pause on movements in hopes to create a steady stream (not a surge) of them after, which was something I thought of with EVERYONE in mind. So with that part said, kindly frigg off with your “but also” energy.

Yeah it’s BS that NATCA operates strictly to the 85% staffing requirement while supervisor bids can deviate whenever they want.

It’s clear CRWG is going to suck for the short term and pay dividends in the long term. They should definitely operate NCEPT to the national average to allow more releases to higher facilities while back filling those releases with the increase of new hires.

 

[SquawkHijack]

You never asked me anything ?


You said “ sit with our thumbs up our asses waiting for the union to promote moment” or close to that


I replied and said “the union does promote movement”

Then you said we should stop moves for a year.

You are all over the place.

First of all, I asked you what exactly what you would recommend? And that was in reference to the movement situation as a whole, not JUST what the Union SHOULD do.

Second, stopping movements for a year and then starting a steady stream of releases to make NCEPT better than it is now would be promoting movements. You’re just too shortsighted for such theory as you’ve just exhibited. Where do you think most controllers are going in a years time that makes this such a bad idea?

Also I like how I’m the one who’s allegedly “all over the place” yet you take snippets of what I’ve said to build your own narrative of it then misquoted the fuck out of it and proceeded to ended the same sentence with “ or close to that.” 🥴 Gtfoh bro, do you work for the media?

 

[Nothanks]

First of all, I asked you what exactly what you would recommend? And that was in reference to the movement situation as a whole, not JUST what the Union SHOULD do.

Second, stopping movements for a year and then starting a steady stream of releases to make NCEPT better than it is now would be promoting movements. You’re just too shortsighted for such theory as you’ve just exhibited. Where do you think most controllers in a years time that makes this such a bad idea?

Also I like how I’m the one who’s allegedly “all over the place” yet you take snippets of what I’ve said to build your own narrative of it then misquoted the fuck out of it and proceeded to ended the same sentence with “ or close to that.” 🥴 Gtfoh bro, do you work for the media?

You never me asked me anything about what I think?

You made it seem like the union doesn’t promote movement. And then you said we should stop moves for a year ? Lol

 

[SquawkHijack]

You never me asked me anything about what I think?

You made it seem like the union doesn’t promote movement. And then you said we should stop moves for a year ? Lol

The union doesn’t promote movements. If they did we would’ve seen more of them in the last forty years… and you wouldn’t see the Union “collaborate” on things like 85% target numbers to release. I’ve mentioned all of this before and clearly you didn’t read it.

I asked, “I agree, but with the last forty years in mind what exactly would be your recommendation?” Those were my exact words, since you thought to chime in, what are your thoughts? That’s what I’m wondering, not a two page debate on semantics because you think you’re good at manipulating an argument.

And I did recommend a 1 year pause because it’s a medium term goal to promote movements. Not an overnight fix because tit-whiners like you just want out of your facility now and it’s 110% not going to work that way. Again, where do you see most controllers going in a years time that makes this a bad idea?

 

[Deuce]

The union doesn’t promote movements. If they did we would’ve seen more of them in the last forty years… and you wouldn’t see the Union “collaborate” on things like 85% target numbers to release. I’ve mentioned all of this before and clearly you didn’t read it.

I asked, “I agree, but with the last forty years in mind what exactly would be your recommendation?” Those were my exact words, since you thought to chime in, what are your thoughts? That’s what I’m wondering, not a two page debate on semantics because you think you’re good at manipulating an argument.

And I did recommend a 1 year pause because it’s a medium term goal to promote movements. Not an overnight fix because tit-whiners like you just want out of your facility now and it’s 110% not going to work that way. Again, where do you see most controllers going in a years time that makes this a bad idea?

Lmao right now do you think the union is trying to halt all movement and we have some transfers still thanks to the agency, or do you think it's the other way around

 

[32andBelow]

Lmao right now do you think the union is trying to halt all movement and we have some transfers still thanks to the agency, or do you think it's the other way around

The union isn’t do anything to make it better and with the current rules CRWG will make it much worse.

 

[SquawkHijack]

Lmao right now do you think the union is trying to halt all movement and we have some transfers still thanks to the agency, or do you think it's the other way around

“Promote” transfers or advocate for them is what I said, not halt.

 

[Deuce]

The union isn’t do anything to make it better and with the current rules CRWG will make it much worse.

Not talking to you ya little gremlin, but I guess you can tell me how many percentage more is 1 than 0

“Promote” transfers or advocate for them is what I said, not halt.

If one side is advocating for or "promoting" zero transfers, does that not then there must not be an opposite force advocating or "promoting" transfers in order for them to happen

 

[Nothanks]

The union doesn’t promote movements. If they did we would’ve seen more of them in the last forty years… and you wouldn’t see the Union “collaborate” on things like 85% target numbers to release. I’ve mentioned all of this before and clearly you didn’t read it.

I asked, “I agree, but with the last forty years in mind what exactly would be your recommendation?” Those were my exact words, since you thought to chime in, what are your thoughts? That’s what I’m wondering, not a two page debate on semantics because you think you’re good at manipulating an argument.

And I did recommend a 1 year pause because it’s a medium term goal to promote movements. Not an overnight fix because tit-whiners like you just want out of your facility now and it’s 110% not going to work that way. Again, where do you see most controllers going in a years time that makes this a bad idea?

Not giving a 2 page debate. I’ve responded very briefly. I have no recommendation. I never said I did. You want to halt movement for a year, I thinks that stupid.

 

[HurryUpandWait]

The union doesn’t promote movements. If they did we would’ve seen more of them in the last forty years… and you wouldn’t see the Union “collaborate” on things like 85% target numbers to release. I’ve mentioned all of this before and clearly you didn’t read it.

I asked, “I agree, but with the last forty years in mind what exactly would be your recommendation?” Those were my exact words, since you thought to chime in, what are your thoughts? That’s what I’m wondering, not a two page debate on semantics because you think you’re good at manipulating an argument.

And I did recommend a 1 year pause because it’s a medium term goal to promote movements. Not an overnight fix because tit-whiners like you just want out of your facility now and it’s 110% not going to work that way. Again, where do you see most controllers going in a years time that makes this a bad idea?

Only thing with this is the “give them an inch, they’ll take a mile”. We will agree to halt movements for a year but then a year from now the NAS will still be a shit show (because it’s not going to be fixed overnight) and then before we know it no movement for 5 years etc

 

[GulfCharlie]

Only thing with this is the “give them an inch, they’ll take a mile”. We will agree to halt movements for a year but then a year from now the NAS will still be a shit show (because it’s not going to be fixed overnight) and then before we know it no movement for 5 years etc

That and still no one is factoring in the retirements that will start in 2028 from the individuals hired in 2008... CRWG is being looked at as the solution, which it is in the longer term, but the cyclical process itself needs to be addressed.

 

[ATC Zero]

Do you realize what a union does? Employer agrees with Bargaining Unit to operate within these set of rules- Employee doesn’t operate in these set of rules- Union rebuttals and forces Employer to go back and work within the rules..


Yeah it’s BS that NATCA operates strictly to the 85% staffing requirement while supervisor bids can deviate whenever they want.

It’s clear CRWG is going to suck for the short term and pay dividends in the long term. They should definitely operate NCEPT to the national average to allow more releases to higher facilities while back filling those releases with the increase of new hires.

No they should keep it at 85% the 7’s and below already train enough we are tired of training our way out of it and never get more than 1 leave slot a day. Start sending AG to every facility in the NAS they do it with ARTCC spread the workload out fuck it. Most trainers where I work see that we work hard for no improvement to QOL and are ready to say no to training or provide little to no feedback and just collect the 20% because the sup said get on and train.

 

[32andBelow]

No they should keep it at 85% the 7’s and below already train enough we are tired of training our way out of it and never get more than 1 leave slot a day. Start sending AG to every facility in the NAS they do it with ARTCC spread the workload out fuck it. Most trainers where I work see that we work hard for no improvement to QOL and are ready to say no to training or provide little to no feedback and just collect the 20% because the sup said get on and train.

It needs to go down to like 70% after CRWG

 

[ATC Zero]

It needs to go down to like 70% after CRWG

That will probably be the new National Average when they put the new numbers in.

 

[Mike Kilo]

No they should keep it at 85% the 7’s and below already train enough we are tired of training our way out of it and never get more than 1 leave slot a day. Start sending AG to every facility in the NAS they do it with ARTCC spread the workload out fuck it. Most trainers where I work see that we work hard for no improvement to QOL and are ready to say no to training or provide little to no feedback and just collect the 20% because the sup said get on and train.

Plus I want some new hire seniority bumps, center hogs them all! I’ll make sure they cert 😉.

 

[HurryUpandWait]

No they should keep it at 85% the 7’s and below already train enough we are tired of training our way out of it and never get more than 1 leave slot a day. Start sending AG to every facility in the NAS they do it with ARTCC spread the workload out fuck it. Most trainers where I work see that we work hard for no improvement to QOL and are ready to say no to training or provide little to no feedback and just collect the 20% because the sup said get on and train.

Hate to break it to ya but have to face reality at some point… 7 and below are and should be the training facilities. That won’t change.