- Messages
- 491
- Facility
- Command Center
And let that be a lesson to yall... That's what happens when you buddy up with the controllers and start approving all their requests... Hell I bet he used some common sense.
Seriously supes/OS's/FLM's whatever your calling yourselves now...
- Thread starter liter a cola
- Start date
Robert_Boucher
Forum Sage
- Messages
- 851
I knew someone as well that left as a controller for a sup job washed out and returned to her previous facility as a CPC-IT.
We were recently talking about how to solve the staffing issue the quickest. I mentioned that supervisors could count as staffing more often and work in the rotation like everyone else. They get paid more so they should be expected to do more. The supervisor on starting giving all these excuses as to why that's not possible. Yes, during certain parts of the shift we need someone on the desk (pushes, weather, unusual situations), but there are other parts of the shift that don't require any work at the desk...so plug in. I know it may not work at some of the busier facilities in the NAS but for the majority of facilities supervisors should count. Hell, I'm at a pretty busy up/down now and there are certainly times throughout the day no one is needed at the desk or that the desk couldn't be managed while working a slow position. When I worked at a small up/down we rarely had a stand alone CIC. Our busiest shifts (weekends) no one from management was in the building so if we wanted a stand alone CIC a break was cut short or skipped. Come Monday morning though, with nothing going on, you bet your ass a supervisor would take the CIC from you and sit in the back and do nothing. Meanwhile we were short staffed for years and no one could leave. Give them the CIC pay back, plug in a few times a day and actually help the operation. Imagine the increase in NCEPT releases if 2-4 bodies were added to the numbers at each lower level facility.
Maintainvfr
Forum Sage
- Messages
- 528
Definitely not gonna advocate to lower the count of union positions at a facility and have supes count.
Not to mention my conscience, half of them can't separate their ass cheeks. I'd rather them just sit at the desk browsing Google or whatever they do 90% of the time
Yukatan
Active Member
- Messages
- 108
FightingIrish2012
Legendary Member
- Messages
- 1,860
You could order the sups to work on position but no way would it ever decrease the facility staffing number. And the sups would be the biggest ones against this, you should know it by working as MBS, if a sup was going to be used for staffing for a day whey would want to know weeks in advance as they thought they were so important and "who knows what could happen that day" that they wanted that notice if they were going to be put on the boards. The best way to reduce staffing numbers and force movement is the 804 process as you seen.
I'm not for them lowering the number but rather adding them to the staffing number. Across the nation most facilities are short and it will continue to be that way. You really think we're ever going to be anywhere close to 100% staffing nationwide? The only time the agency cares about your CPC number is when your facility goes so low it's worth bring in more people to save them money and when they use it as a reason to keep you from progressing in your career, thus saving them money and costing you. Your facility staffing number is completely meaningless when it comes to actual jobs added. I don't have the numbers but they do. They know the exact staffing number that is most cost efficient and I'm sure it's lower then the made up number we use.
Let's be honest, I know it would never happen but I was just trying to make a point that two of the biggest issues people have, staffing and FLMs uselessness, could be addressed to some extent if expectations of them changed and we used them as some form of staffing within the operation. As for not wanting them to work because they suck, I don't get this. If they are force to work and have a deal, but I get leave, let's just say I hope they know their ATSAP password because I'm enjoying my day off.
I'm a realist and I know this would never happen within our current structure.
Yes, 804 can generate movement but we need to be careful. While some move on that didn't have an opportunity to before, those left behind may never get out. In addition, who knows what the FAA does when over half the facilities in the NAS are lvl 4 towers.
wand_waver
Active Member
- Messages
- 193
the one sup I knew came from a 12 up/down to a 12 TRACON only and failed to certify. His old position at the up/down was filled so they found him a spot at an 11 tower as a sup
Unable is a full sentence
Member
- Messages
- 35
IT'S RAINING SUPES!
Have you heard the one about the level 4 with a dozen CPCs, and an average of 61 airport ops a day going from 1 to 3 supes?
Have you heard the one about the level 4 with a dozen CPCs, and an average of 61 airport ops a day going from 1 to 3 supes?
FightingIrish2012
Legendary Member
- Messages
- 1,860
What do you think the CPC to Sup ratio should be? I think about 20/1. There is very little a Sup does with a CPC, mid year and annual reviews are just templates with a tiny comments section that is optional. They do have to do 30 minute skills checks on trainees each month but how hard is that, if you have 6 trainees that’s about 5 hours of commitment a month including the debriefing.
- Messages
- 421
Yes...all too well.IT'S RAINING SUPES!
Have you heard the one about the level 4 with a dozen CPCs, and an average of 61 airport ops a day going from 1 to 3 supes?
- Messages
- 3,446
Is it crystal? the FAAs new proving ground.IT'S RAINING SUPES!
Have you heard the one about the level 4 with a dozen CPCs, and an average of 61 airport ops a day going from 1 to 3 supes?
- Messages
- 996
Supervisor shouldn't exist in its current form. The existence of the CIC certification proves that controllers are capable of handling a huge part of what sup's are supposed to do and staff support specialists can handle the other stuff. Trying to get these clowns currency and certify them on positions is a pain in the ass for the controllers and often dangerous for pilots.
Tons of facilities give supervisor grade checkouts which essentially means the supe can sound enough like a controller for a while in periods of little to no traffic so that they can have the appearance of being a legit controller + all their extra responsibilities. Which often times gives them a massive ego, which makes them worse leaders, etc, etc
MIC - one breath away from ORD ?
Name one organization that benefits from having the bottom 10% of the skill level matriculate into management...
Not to mention it’s a safety problem. Show me in the .65 where it says supes dont have to be safe. Everyone who plugs in should have to certify with the same standards.
- Messages
- 483
- Facility
- N90 New York Tracon
There is a current Sup at a consolidated TRACON that took 3 YEARS to certify in their area. It took me a little over a year. They would train for maybe an hour a day on super light traffic (Sunday morning usually). One of the other FLMs would accost any trainer who wrote a bad report (there were a lot). It was an absolute shit show. Anyway, yeah, the system is broke
- Messages
- 2,085
- Facility
- N90 New York Tracon
one of the things N90 does right is any sup has to be qualified in every position and until they’re fully certified they’re just treated like any other trainee.
I have heard of people at the district level ordering facilities to certify supervisors
P
PushingTin
Guest
Believe everything you hear? If that is true, that District leadership would be fired. That would call for a Congressional investigation for wrongdoing. Can you imagine the lawsuits against the FAA if something were to happen? Ie that ordered checkout caused an accident, or certified someone who caused an accident, or someone that didn’t succeed in training and was terminated by that forced checkout?
