Shoot The Breeze

[GulfCharlie]

Okay. Like I get it, I'm a progressive and to me the Dems are not as liberal as I'd like. Neoliberalism is a scourge and I don't like how corporatist the mainline Democrats are. Sure.

But to look at everything that's happening and say "both sides are the same, they're all crooks, nothing matters" is... ignorant at best. I have no words.

I never said nothing matters. Every issue is an important issue both personally and to the American people. Both parties consist of crooks, who years ago shed any semblance of doing the right and honourable thing for their fellow man. The individuals that are in politics today are there because the American people as a whole are ignorant and they continually play off that ignorance. You ask me to choose the one less evil? No Sir. I have been in countries where both evils are prevalent and let me tell you I know the path the Republicans would take and the Democrats if both proceeded unchecked. I say there is a third way, not just one way or another whereby your soul is locked in to that which would have you think others are wrong for thinking differently.

 

[32andBelow]

You are ignoring and deflecting from the statement you made and the topic you originally brought up. The road to hell is paved with the best of intentions.

Please share the hypocracies that the dems have done that would level with this. We are all waiting

 

[GulfCharlie]

Please share the hypocracies that the dems have done that would level with this. We are all waiting

To ask to compare with a few specific, I am telling you they are all the same. You are again choosing what you perceive to be the lesser evil, in a way I cannot fault you for that but at the same time you want to destroy the very system you claim to value by destroying in a tit for tat game.

 

[Mr.Tickles]

Please share the hypocracies that the dems have done that would level with this. We are all waiting

Adding six justices just so they have more power in the Supreme Court.....

 

[Shikaka]

Is this a AOE reference

I appreciate you for catching that.

Pretty much? No... Just no... Both parties have many many faults and many times the rules have not applied to either of them. You either bury your head in the sand when Democrats run things or just choose to ignore them. If you really want I could whip up 50 examples of both parties playing by their own rules and interpretations , but let us be honest, you have already made up your own mind and are unable to view things through a bipartisan perspective.

It's been a while since you've done a thesis...

No they actually don’t. That’s the thing. Democrats are trying to give people health care and personal rights and the republicans giving tax cuts to billionaires and controlling women’s bodies

No they aren't lmao, they wanted the rich to keep SALT deductions and to have the government pay COBRA premiums, that's literally what Republicans do except the Democrats say "it's for your own self interest" #FedDoesntKnowMe #Guillotine2020

 

[GulfCharlie]

I appreciate you for catching that.

It's been a while since you've done a thesis...

No they aren't lmao

My work colleagues are happy I have been home, my discussions are always thought provoking and tend to last most of the shift XD.

 

[ehmeye]

Pretty much? No... Just no... Both parties have many many faults and many times the rules have not applied to either of them. You either bury your head in the sane when Democrats run things or just choose to ignore them. If you really want I could whip up 50 examples of both parties playing by their own rules and interpretations , but let us be honest, you have already made up your own mind and are unable to view things through a bipartisan perspective.

This is a false equivalence that conservatives like to trot out when they claim they're actually not. "Both parties do it!" Except it's not accurate at all. Democrats slow rolling the confirmation of Bush's judicial nominees was political posturing for certain, then Republicans block EVERY judicial nomination for Obama. Not equivalent. When Bush squeaked out a win in 2000, Dem leadership worked with him on education and his tax cut and things got done. When Obama won handily in 2008, Republican leadership never negotiated once in good faith and their only goal was to obstruct, not govern, not work for their constituents.

Both parties used to tell little misleading stats like "So and so voted to raise your taxes 255 times last year" counting committee votes on amendments to bills that were designed to fail. Now the leadership of one party has deserted honesty entirely. They can be confronted with proof of their lies and they just double down and call it fake news. Cheney did it way more elegantly than Trump, McCarthy, Duncan Hunter, Gaetz, Rubio, et al. Trump even claims crazy shit like he signed Veterans Choice Act, which was enacted in 2014.

Politics is a dirty game, it always has been. There are liars in every walk of life and every political persuasion. But only one side has decided that it's a zero sum game and that the ends justify any means necessary. And if it doesn't stop then the escalation will continue.

 

[ehmeye]

Adding six justices just so they have more power in the Supreme Court.....

They would only add 4, makes it 7 to 6.

 

[Shikaka]

My work colleagues are happy I have been home, my discussions are always thought provoking and tend to last most of the shift XD.

We have one here but his stories are mostly about cats and he talks at you...

This is a false equivalence that conservatives like to trot out when they claim they're actually not. "Both parties do it!" Except it's not accurate at all. Democrats slow rolling the confirmation of Bush's judicial nominees was political posturing for certain, then Republicans block EVERY judicial nomination for Obama. Not equivalent. When Bush squeaked out a win in 2000, Dem leadership worked with him on education and his tax cut and things got done. When Obama won handily in 2008, Republican leadership never negotiated once in good faith and their only goal was to obstruct, not govern, not work for their constituents.

Both parties used to tell little misleading stats like "So and so voted to raise your taxes 255 times last year" counting committee votes on amendments to bills that were designed to fail. Now the leadership of one party has deserted honesty entirely. They can be confronted with proof of their lies and they just double down and call it fake news. Cheney did it way more elegantly than Trump, McCarthy, Duncan Hunter, Gaetz, Rubio, et al. Trump even claims crazy shit like he signed Veterans Choice Act, which was enacted in 2014.

Politics is a dirty game, it always has been. There are liars in every walk of life and every political persuasion. But only one side has decided that it's a zero sum game and that the ends justify any means necessary. And if it doesn't stop then the escalation will continue.

And yet you're defending the party which performed a sham of an impeachment..

 

[ehmeye]

We have one here but his stories are mostly about cats and he talks at you...

And yet you're defending the party which performed a sham of an impeachment..

It was a sham because there was no possible way that they would get 67 votes to remove. He absolutely attempted to do everything he was accused of. Sondland, Fiona Hill, and whoever was ambassador to Ukraine all testified to that effect. And the Pentagon confirmed that they withheld the military aid to Ukraine on the condition that they investigate Hunter Biden.

 

[CF]

And yet you're defending the party which performed a sham of an impeachment..

Would have been great to see an actual trial to prove this. I try not to get too deep into the political weeds other than calling Trump a dumbass but it’s bullshit to say that the impeachment was a sham because the republicans didn’t actually hold a trial in the senate. If we actually heard from witnesses and saw evidence during the senate trial then it would be easy to say whether or not it’s sham.

 

[GulfCharlie]

This is a false equivalence that conservatives like to trot out when they claim they're actually not. "Both parties do it!" Except it's not accurate at all. Democrats slow rolling the confirmation of Bush's judicial nominees was political posturing for certain, then Republicans block EVERY judicial nomination for Obama. Not equivalent. When Bush squeaked out a win in 2000, Dem leadership worked with him on education and his tax cut and things got done. When Obama won handily in 2008, Republican leadership never negotiated once in good faith and their only goal was to obstruct, not govern, not work for their constituents.

Both parties used to tell little misleading stats like "So and so voted to raise your taxes 255 times last year" counting committee votes on amendments to bills that were designed to fail. Now the leadership of one party has deserted honesty entirely. They can be confronted with proof of their lies and they just double down and call it fake news. Cheney did it way more elegantly than Trump, McCarthy, Duncan Hunter, Gaetz, Rubio, et al. Trump even claims crazy shit like he signed Veterans Choice Act, which was enacted in 2014.

Politics is a dirty game, it always has been. There are liars in every walk of life and every political persuasion. But only one side has decided that it's a zero sum game and that the ends justify any means necessary. And if it doesn't stop then the escalation will continue.

Fantastic point of discussion here, a lot of accurate points here. "Both parties do it" is a terrible statement, but one I personally have come to adopt as I search for a third party solution (which I honestly believe is where the answer would exist thereby forcing the forming of quasi coalitions in the House and Senate in order to advance legislation). What we have here in the above stated, again lots of excellent points, is the common "raise the stakes" game that we have come to expect of American politics. The media (I will pick on whipping boy because this is the easiest) has over the last 50 years or so, been beating the drum that "the election or support of this individual will mean the end of the world as we know it" (To paraphrase lightly). What this has caused is a shift to the radical end of both political spectrums gradually raising the stakes or ante as it were, to a point where the slightest change or deviation from the arena of political norm is perceived as a major transgression and it now has exploded into what I can only see as personal quarrels among the members with life time appointments in all but name.

Is there a solution to this? I think the best solution would be to implement term limits on all parties. Force the parties to work together so they can leave their "legacy" or "mark on history." When we implement term limits we introduce new perspectives on todays problems, new individuals who are both realists and idealist into the service of our country and once again make it a profession or at least an office of prestige. Is this perfect or the absolute solution? No it is not, but it would "reset" politics in our country while still striving to maintain the best of system of government in the world.

 

[ehmeye]

Fantastic point of discussion here, a lot of accurate points here. "Both parties do it" is a terrible statement, but one I personally have come to adopt as I search for a third party solution (which I honestly believe is where the answer would forming a quasi coalition in the House and Senate in order to advance legislation). What we have here in the above stated, again lots of excellent points, is the common "raise the states" game that we have come to expect of American politics. The media (I will pick on whipping boy because this is the easiest) has over the last 50 years or so, been beating the drum that "the election or support of this individual will mean the end of the world as we know it" (To paraphrase lightly). What this has caused is a shift to the radical end of both political spectrums gradually raising the stakes or ante as it were, to a point where the slightest change or deviation from the arena of political norm is perceived as a major transgression and it now has exploded into what I can only see as personal quarrels among the members.

Is there a solution to this? I think the best solution would be to implement term limits on all parties. Force the parties to work together so they can leave their "legacy" or "mark on history." When we implement term limits we introduce new perspectives on todays problems, new individuals who are both realists and idealist into the service of our country and once again make it a profession or at least an office of prestige. Is this perfect or the absolute solution? No it is not, but it would "reset" politics in our country while still striving to maintain the best of system of government in the world.

I really like the idea of term limits, but I do worry that lobbyists would accrue more influence as older, more experienced politicians retire. I think holding public office as a full career is full of problematic shit, the chance for corruption or stagnation is too high.

The increasing polarization is just going to get worse, just like you said.

 

[GulfCharlie]

I really like the idea of term limits, but I do worry that lobbyists would accrue more influence as older, more experienced politicians retire. I think holding public office as a full career is full of problematic shit, the chance for corruption or stagnation is too high.

The increasing polarization is just going to get worse, just like you said.

I agree whole heartedly, as for the lobbyists I am sure with time a solution will present itself either through experience or a new mind. Next CFS a round of drinks on me.

 

[Shikaka]

It was a sham because there was no possible way that they would get 67 votes to remove. He absolutely attempted to do everything he was accused of. Sondland, Fiona Hill, and whoever was ambassador to Ukraine all testified to that effect. And the Pentagon confirmed that they withheld the military aid to Ukraine on the condition that they investigate Hunter Biden.

There is a difference between assumptions like Sondland had, and actual evidence like...a video...

#Guillotine2020

 

[Mr.Tickles]

They would only add 4, makes it 7 to 6.

Fair enough, I hadn’t heard four and only six has been mentioned here. I haven’t done much research on the subject recently.

 

[ehmeye]

There is a difference between assumptions like Sondland had, and actual evidence like...a video...

#Guillotine2020

This is an interesting argument that right-wingers bring up. The billion (in loan guarantees) was contingent on Ukraine taking a hard line on corruption, including inside the prosecutor's office. When they didn't take the steps that were contingent on getting our loan guarantees, like firing the prosecutor that would NOT investigate the corruption in his office and would NOT investigate Burisma (which had Hunter Biden on it's board) then they were told there weren't getting money. So they fired the guy who was protecting his own corrupt prosecutors and was protecting the CEO of Burisma from a money laundering investigation.

Even after all of this, they still haven't had a sniff of criminality on Hunter Biden's part. If there's one thing you're correct about, its that he never should have been on that board in the first place. Even the appearance of a conflict of interest was bad for America.

Fair enough, I hadn’t heard four and only six has been mentioned here. I haven’t done much research on the subject recently.

Yeah, I've been seeing four. I don't like the idea of continuous escalation though, cause in 4 or 8 years the next guy would probably try to make it 15.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

You know 32andbelow, you used to be a rising star on these boards with the FAA and NATCA hate and trying to fight the good fight regarding training but you since took a bigger fall then Hugh Grant and your a lot like school in summertime.

 

[32andBelow]

You know 32andbelow, you used to be a rising star on these boards with the FAA and NATCA hate and trying to fight the good fight regarding training but you since took a bigger fall then Hugh Grant and your a lot like school in summertime.

I’m indépendant bro. I’m a union busting dem

 

[GBDCZF]

Is there a solution to this?

Kanye West