The woeful unpreparedness of Management

[Dontbotherme]

In what sort of backwater sisterfucking facility would someone be certified on LC but not GC. It's so asinine that I literally didn't understand the exception.

ATL certify on LC5, but not on ground(s) yet.

 

[PushingTin]

I will never forget how controllers were treated during this pandemic. I believe there is a situation happening where the harder the union or those worried about their family's health push, the more defiant the other side gets. At this point they're almost trolling everyone in their stubborn refusal to address safety concerns.

 

[MKK]

I don’t see how they could possibly make this this fair. I’m fairly certain 99% of people would rather be home getting paid than be at work and still get paid the same. I agree, it’s not fair. But life just isn’t fair. Granted I still come in and maybe work 2 hours on position all day and not do anything the other 6, but I’d rather be at home with my kids at least for those other 6. Pretty frustrating. During the busiest time of the day currently, 75% of the staff is still on break. What are we doing here.

 

[Bandit117]

I don’t see how they could possibly make this this fair. I’m fairly certain 99% of people would rather be home getting paid than be at work and still get paid the same. I agree, it’s not fair. But life just isn’t fair. Granted I still come in and maybe work 2 hours on position all day and not do anything the other 6, but I’d rather be at home with my kids at least for those other 6. Pretty frustrating. During the busiest time of the day currently, 75% of the staff is still on break. What are we doing here.

There is no one size fits all solution, every facility should have the ability to decide who they need and who they don’t. But the central committee of the politburo of the FAA would rather die than cede any power to the local level.

 

[GulfCharlie]

There is no one size fits all solution, every facility should have the ability to decide who they need and who they don’t. But the central committee of the politburo of the FAA would rather die than cede any power to the local level.

You are a man of culture as well. 10/10 on wording this.

 

[Electricfence]

There is no one size fits all solution, every facility should have the ability to decide who they need and who they don’t. But the central committee of the politburo of the FAA would rather die than cede any power to the local level.

While I agree, this thinking was how transfers were accomplished until a few years ago which led to the ncept.....so clearly each facility has demonstrated how they can’t be trusted and clearly most of you hate that. Then you’d get people at facilities say....I don’t know why we don’t do it the way xyz facility is doing it. No one can win in this scenario.

 

[Hissmeowra]

While I agree, this thinking was how transfers were accomplished until a few years ago which led to the ncept.....so clearly each facility has demonstrated how they can’t be trusted and clearly most of you hate that. Then you’d get people at facilities say....I don’t know why we don’t do it they way xyz facility is doing it. No one can win in this scenario.

The way to make it as fair as possible while still doing it at the local level is to mandate that each facility determine what positions are necessary at the reduced traffic levels we're seeing, send everybody not certified on a "necessary" position home, and then create a rotating skeleton schedule for everybody else that would have them work the same amount. For instance, if ground and tower are combined when traffic is light, then GC-certified only people are not needed for staffing and sent home. It's not going to be perfectly "fair" in the sense that somebody certified on GC only at JFK isn't going to be sent home while that same person at a level 4 tower would be, but it would provide for the minimum amount of staffing while keeping everything operational.

 

[Bandit117]

While I agree, this thinking was how transfers were accomplished until a few years ago which led to the ncept.....so clearly each facility has demonstrated how they can’t be trusted and clearly most of you hate that. Then you’d get people at facilities say....I don’t know why we don’t do it the way xyz facility is doing it. No one can win in this scenario.

I would say transfers isn’t nearly the same as figuring out your bare minimum, emergency level staff. Most low to mid level updowns could run work no more than 5 people in the building at any time, 1 combined tower, 1 combined radar, 1 each to be their relief, and 1 more just in case something pops up. That’s not a universal standard of course, each facility is different. Min staff at ZKC is going to look different than min staff at FCM or ATL

 

[DankVectorz]

Anyone considering talking to the media? What are the consequences?

Nobody is going to care about ATC’s while doctors, nurses, hell even grocery story workers are going to work without complaint. There’s a hell of a lot more people at a lot higher risk than we are who are doing what they have to do to keep things running. If we are going to go to the media for anything, it should be to showcase how we still show up and do our jobs. That good PR might be useful for us in the near future. Remember the squeaky wheel doesn’t always get the grease, sometimes it gets replaced.

 

[Electricfence]

I would say transfers isn’t nearly the same as figuring out your bare minimum, emergency level staff. Most low to mid level updowns could run work no more than 5 people in the building at any time, 1 combined tower, 1 combined radar, 1 each to be their relief, and 1 more just in case something pops up. That’s not a universal standard of course, each facility is different. Min staff at ZKC is going to look different than min staff at FCM or ATL

I was merely pointing out how management left to their own devices can’t be trusted.

But Please continue and tell me how a center, vfr tower and one of the busiest airports in the world are different. I never would have known without your wisdom.

 

[Stinger]

In what sort of backwater sisterfucking facility would someone be certified on LC but not GC. It's so asinine that I literally didn't understand the exception.

Places that train on ground and local concurrently.

 

[Horny4Vectors]

Anyone see this one the Dems are trying to slide into this relief package?

 

[ONE]

View attachment 3590
Anyone see this one the Dems are trying to slide into this relief package?

Lawmakers Introduce Bill to Overturn Trump Collective Bargaining Decisions

A bipartisan measure would nullify President Trump’s three executive orders aimed at reducing the influence of federal employee unions, as well as a memo granting the secretary of Defense the authority to exempt the Pentagon from federal labor law.

www.govexec.com

"...would invalidate three executive orders aimed at making it easier to fire federal employees and reducing union influence at federal agencies, as well as a recent White House memo granting Defense Secretary Mark Esper the authority to exempt all or part of his department from federal labor law. "

It helps the unions... literally what 40% of discussion on this thread is about. Is this not what you guys want?

 

[DankVectorz]

Lawmakers Introduce Bill to Overturn Trump Collective Bargaining Decisions

A bipartisan measure would nullify President Trump’s three executive orders aimed at reducing the influence of federal employee unions, as well as a memo granting the secretary of Defense the authority to exempt the Pentagon from federal labor law.

www.govexec.com

"...would invalidate three executive orders aimed at making it easier to fire federal employees and reducing union influence at federal agencies, as well as a recent White House memo granting Defense Secretary Mark Esper the authority to exempt all or part of his department from federal labor law. "

It helps the unions... literally what 40% of discussion on this thread is about. Is this not what you guys want?

I’m all for it as separate legislation. Both sides need to skip the pork on this relief bill and stick with stuff directly related to Covid

 

[vectorwagon]

In what sort of backwater sisterfucking facility would someone be certified on LC but not GC. It's so asinine that I literally didn't understand the exception.

atl

 

[ONE]

I’m all for it as separate legislation. Both sides need to skip the pork on this relief bill and stick with stuff directly related to Covid

I would normally agree but the likelihood of it passing as a separate bill is unlikely with a Rep. controlled Senate.

Dem's are just taking advantage of the chaos and using it as leverage to get bills they want passed. It's shitty (imo) but it's how both sides play the game.

and hey, if it helps us...

 

[ManBearPig]

I would normally agree but the likelihood of it passing as a separate bill is unlikely with a Rep. controlled Senate.

Dem's are just taking advantage of the chaos and using it as leverage to get bills they want passed. It's shitty (imo) but it's how both sides play the game.

and hey, if it helps us...

I'm sure this part will help us.

 

[Bandit117]

I was merely pointing out how management left to their own devices can’t be trusted.

But Please continue and tell me how a center, vfr tower and one of the busiest airports in the world are different. I never would have known without your wisdom.

Easy chief, you’re the one who made the claim that because the old transfer process was subject to discretion that local facilities can’t be trusted to come up with their own minimum staffing requirements and lists of essential personnel. You seem to be forgetting that under the old system, there was a decent amount of culpability from the union as well, people not wanting managers to pull ERRs that might kick them down in seniority, etc. no system is going to be perfect but the fact that it won’t be perfect isn’t a valid deterrent from trying some thing that needs to be done .

 

[ONE]

I'm sure this part will help us.
View attachment 3591

Not the same bill? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I was referring to that specific bill, but like I said I agree that it's an underhanded tactic.

 

[ManBearPig]

Not the same bill? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I was referring to that specific bill, but like I said I agree that it's an underhanded tactic.

Yeah same bill. There is a bunch of stupid shit like that in the House Democrats proposed bill. Both "sides" need burned to the ground and we can start over.