"This facility is a country club"

[Mike Kilo]

I’ve found a lot of low level facility lifers are washouts from the old only 1:3 will make it in this career. They washed at a center or something and made it at podunk airport. After that experience it would be a garden facility lol.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Been lurking for a long time- why not just increase the pay at the lower level facilities? Frankly the main reason people want to go to higher level facilities is the pay, and increasing pay at lower levels would just allow them to stay there (and likely in a low COL area), giving them a double incentive to work there.

You do realize pay is set based on the amount of traffic worked, right? Many of the low level facilities don't do anything most of the year... Get an IFR day and the VFR towers do literally zero operations.

 

[ONE]

You do realize pay is set based on the amount of traffic worked, right? Many of the low level facilities don't do anything most of the year... Get an IFR day and the VFR towers do literally zero operations.

Ah lol didn't know that there was THAT much of a lack of traffic, I was expecting maybe a 50% to 75% reduction at worst.

 

[jakemorrill]

I've noticed this particular viewpoint is held by people at lower level facilities, but still getting paid from when the facility used to be busy. Take Dayton, level 4 now, but all of the lifers are making money from back when they were a busy up/down. No reason to move making 100k+ working 60 planes a day. New hires don't/can't make that money at level 4's.

 

[semperfly]

You do realize pay is set based on the amount of traffic worked, right? Many of the low level facilities don't do anything most of the year... Get an IFR day and the VFR towers do literally zero operations.

True, but man some of the VFR towers really need a pay bump. The traffic at a few of them rivals some of the hardest facilities in the agency. Not really on topic of this thread but any opportunity I get to make repeat myself on the subject, I will. Low traffic AC facilities getting paid more than some of these insane VFR towers is just total bullshit.

-- now back to enjoying this guys original post.

 

[COWTOWN]

True, but man some of the VFR towers really need a pay bump. The traffic at a few of them rivals some of the hardest facilities in the agency. Not really on topic of this thread but any opportunity I get to make repeat myself on the subject, I will. Low traffic AC facilities getting paid more than some of these insane VFR towers is just total bullshit.

-- now back to enjoying this guys original post.

Have an example?

 

[semperfly]

Have an example?

If you've worked or visited any of the high traffic VFR towers then you know how they compare to the rest of the agency. If not then there's no point to start an argument if that's where this is headed. -- Complexity & workload to pay ratio is all I'm talking about.

 

[Phillyman2633]

 

[FightingIrish2012]

It is true that some VFR towers can be ultra hard and complex. The busy ones do several hundred, up to 1,000 ops a day with mostly student pilots, that’s as many ops as the busy hubs but they are only a level 6-8 not a 10-12. I think the busy VFR towers are some of the hardest and compared to workload lowest paid places in the agency, I would never want to work one.

 

[semperfly]

I would never want to work one.

I'm not going to entertain people who hire on and go straight to a center or tracon. Probably sitting in the easiest sector at their facility, but still want to flex like they're Billy Bob Thorton. I respect the insanity those places can bring, and the amount of information you need to remember at any given time. But, I've worked at one of the craziest agency VFR towers, and I assure you.. It is a hell you can't comprehend at times. -- There are pros/cons to any type of facility though. My only point with all of this is that there are some VFR towers that need a serious pay raise. The only reason they're making jack shit is because its nothing but GA.

 

[squawkIFR]

Can people please stop arguing and tell me whether I should be happy at my level 5 or not.

 

[Cowboy]

Can people please stop arguing and tell me whether I should be happy at my level 5 or not.

No!

 

[Super Salt]

^^
PushingTin alt account.

VFR towers aren’t subject to monitoring like any other facility, so they’re not hard/difficult.

 

[flying_dutchman]

Have an example?
[/

The only way to have a deal in a VFR tower is by not having 3000 4500 or 6000 feet on the runway, even then, there is no Proof that you did or did not have separation. No big brother watching your every move and recording it and reporting it to the OM and FAA HQ. rarely is a controller at a VFR tower held to any kind of standard.
even if 2 aircraft hit, and they have hit in the past...its still see and be seen, the pilot is responsible not the controller, so dont cry how hard a VFR Tower is to anyone that has ever had to take responsibility for every transmission they make.

so...what you’re saying is, a VFR tower is essentially a country club.

 

[Super Salt]

Im not saying VFR towers can not be challenging, but hard...no..hard is working a 120 AAR level 12 facility IFR, when you may of had 2 decerts in the last 3 years and 1 more will get you fired, or at least transferred to a difficult VFR Tower.

Also, dodging traffic at VFR towers is way easier than other facilities.

If pattern traffic just isn’t your thing, you can always lie about the weather or the winds. Or flat out deny the pilots from doing any touch and go’s.

 

[sizziano]

???

 

[Electricfence]

Geez, It his sounds like the get off my lawn convention. Everyone is so scared about monitoring by big brother, has anyone ever actually gotten in trouble because of monitoring and the snitch patch? I’m seriously asking. Recently not 10 years ago. Answering questions by an overbearing OM doesn’t count. You are supposed to provide separation, and you didn’t maybe at zero fault of your own and you think a vfr tower is easy because it’s less of a hastle because you won’t get pulled into an office as often? Please. People think the grass is always greener or it’s always easier somewhere else. People at a vfr tower have to do Way more job duties, people at a 12 ifr see more but have less to do outside of the operation. So pick your poison and shut the F*** up. They both can be extremely difficult at times.

 

[Daveybags]

Gotta love the ego's of high level controllers ?

 

[semperfly]

plus I, never as a RADAR controller told everyone to exit the pattern because I lost the picture.

I've never heard of anyone doing that. Don't be so dramatic. If you tried to pull some shit like that at the towers I'm talking about, it would likely end up on nation wide news. I don't think you understand how dangerous those places can be. Accidents due to pilot error are very common. Many resulting in death. Had 2 in less than a year. Why? Uneducated pilots..a lot of them.

I'd rather talk to 1000 salty veteran air carrier pilots at the same time, than deal with 10 foreign students pilots.

Edit: Not me personally on the deaths.

 

[PushingTin]

Was just watching PGA tour golf happening @ Torrey Pines and thinking SAN is def a country club! Can anyone confirm? Or do I need to "come try it" like the N90 mafia says in order to have an opinion!? Plz advise thx