Training hold

Shikaka

Legendary Member
Messages
2,065
I’ve been saying this all along lol.

Y’all that take the vaccine are gonna be the spokespeople in an ad in 2050 saying, “if you had the Covid vaccine between Dec 2020 and Jan 2022 you may be entitled to compensation”

Oh and the vaccine label will say:

“DONT TAKE THE COVID VACCINE IF YOU
ARE ALLERGIC TO THE COVID VACCINE”

Oh it's good dude, just hijacking and messing with the protein printers in your body obviously has no adverse effects across the entire general population.
 

Komp

Active Member
Messages
31
This recall really baffles me. Everyone that was out the last 8 months was already out the last 8 months. That is a sunk cost.

The facts:
  • The virus is quite literally raging out of control nationwide.
  • There are several promising vaccines that will likely be delivered to our workforce as soon as first responders and high risk receive them. So, likely by the end of February
The options:
  • Recall as many people as they can right now. Of course, this means more spread and more ATC-0 and more risk to everyone.
  • Wait 3-4 months, get everyone that wants a vaccination a vaccination, then get everyone back to work. Of course, this limits the risk to the NAS and to the workforce.
I just really can't see the logic that lead to option 1. I know someone is going to throw out the RIF arguments, but there is absolutely no evidence of that. Further, RIFs require a process that would likely stretch out past the timeframe to get a vaccine. Meanwhile, they are still hiring. Even the FAA knows an appeal to a termination based upon a RIF when they are hiring for the same position is going to be overturned. So, even if you have your tin hat on, lets just say it wasn't to avoid RIFs. Something else was at play here.
 

Mike Kilo

Legendary Member
Messages
1,608
This recall really baffles me. Everyone that was out the last 8 months was already out the last 8 months. That is a sunk cost.

The facts:
  • The virus is quite literally raging out of control nationwide.
  • There are several promising vaccines that will likely be delivered to our workforce as soon as first responders and high risk receive them. So, likely by the end of February
The options:
  • Recall as many people as they can right now. Of course, this means more spread and more ATC-0 and more risk to everyone.
  • Wait 3-4 months, get everyone that wants a vaccination a vaccination, then get everyone back to work. Of course, this limits the risk to the NAS and to the workforce.
I just really can't see the logic that lead to option 1. I know someone is going to throw out the RIF arguments, but there is absolutely no evidence of that. Further, RIFs require a process that would likely stretch out past the timeframe to get a vaccine. Meanwhile, they are still hiring. Even the FAA knows an appeal to a termination based upon a RIF when they are hiring for the same position is going to be overturned. So, even if you have your tin hat on, lets just say it wasn't to avoid RIFs. Something else was at play here.
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
 

ClearanceClarence

Forum Sage
Messages
766
This recall really baffles me. Everyone that was out the last 8 months was already out the last 8 months. That is a sunk cost.

The facts:
  • The virus is quite literally raging out of control nationwide.
  • There are several promising vaccines that will likely be delivered to our workforce as soon as first responders and high risk receive them. So, likely by the end of February
The options:
  • Recall as many people as they can right now. Of course, this means more spread and more ATC-0 and more risk to everyone.
  • Wait 3-4 months, get everyone that wants a vaccination a vaccination, then get everyone back to work. Of course, this limits the risk to the NAS and to the workforce.
I just really can't see the logic that lead to option 1. I know someone is going to throw out the RIF arguments, but there is absolutely no evidence of that. Further, RIFs require a process that would likely stretch out past the timeframe to get a vaccine. Meanwhile, they are still hiring. Even the FAA knows an appeal to a termination based upon a RIF when they are hiring for the same position is going to be overturned. So, even if you have your tin hat on, lets just say it wasn't to avoid RIFs. Something else was at play here.
Perhaps the possibility of a shutdown was involved. NATCA has had a history of trying to rush certs to make people “essential” out of some bizarre fear that non-essential people will not receive back pay.
 
Messages
10
This recall really baffles me. Everyone that was out the last 8 months was already out the last 8 months. That is a sunk cost.

The facts:
  • The virus is quite literally raging out of control nationwide.
  • There are several promising vaccines that will likely be delivered to our workforce as soon as first responders and high risk receive them. So, likely by the end of February
The options:
  • Recall as many people as they can right now. Of course, this means more spread and more ATC-0 and more risk to everyone.
  • Wait 3-4 months, get everyone that wants a vaccination a vaccination, then get everyone back to work. Of course, this limits the risk to the NAS and to the workforce.
I just really can't see the logic that lead to option 1. I know someone is going to throw out the RIF arguments, but there is absolutely no evidence of that. Further, RIFs require a process that would likely stretch out past the timeframe to get a vaccine. Meanwhile, they are still hiring. Even the FAA knows an appeal to a termination based upon a RIF when they are hiring for the same position is going to be overturned. So, even if you have your tin hat on, lets just say it wasn't to avoid RIFs. Something else was at play here.
Could be the head of DOT or FAA having a fit on their way out.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
3,999
This recall really baffles me. Everyone that was out the last 8 months was already out the last 8 months. That is a sunk cost.

The facts:
  • The virus is quite literally raging out of control nationwide.
  • There are several promising vaccines that will likely be delivered to our workforce as soon as first responders and high risk receive them. So, likely by the end of February
The options:
  • Recall as many people as they can right now. Of course, this means more spread and more ATC-0 and more risk to everyone.
  • Wait 3-4 months, get everyone that wants a vaccination a vaccination, then get everyone back to work. Of course, this limits the risk to the NAS and to the workforce.
I just really can't see the logic that lead to option 1. I know someone is going to throw out the RIF arguments, but there is absolutely no evidence of that. Further, RIFs require a process that would likely stretch out past the timeframe to get a vaccine. Meanwhile, they are still hiring. Even the FAA knows an appeal to a termination based upon a RIF when they are hiring for the same position is going to be overturned. So, even if you have your tin hat on, lets just say it wasn't to avoid RIFs. Something else was at play here.
Or it was the last change to “save” the certifications that the D1s and D2s who haven’t been recalled previously
 

GulfBravoPapa

Forum Sage
Messages
1,190
I've been at work the entire time and haven't trained since the late Oct because we keep losing people to quarantine time. The lifted training hold doesn't do any good when you only have five people on shift and need at least four positions open. Hopefully at the end of Nov when we merge crews I will actually get to train again.

Off topic and sorry but had there been any talk of the VFR towers working reduced hours to go back to normal hours?
 

Mike Kilo

Legendary Member
Messages
1,608
I've been at work the entire time and haven't trained since the late Oct because we keep losing people to quarantine time. The lifted training hold doesn't do any good when you only have five people on shift and need at least four positions open. Hopefully at the end of Nov when we merge crews I will actually get to train again.

Off topic and sorry but had there been any talk of the VFR towers working reduced hours to go back to normal hours?
Those are the new normal hours..... 😉
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
3,999
I've been at work the entire time and haven't trained since the late Oct because we keep losing people to quarantine time. The lifted training hold doesn't do any good when you only have five people on shift and need at least four positions open. Hopefully at the end of Nov when we merge crews I will actually get to train again.

Off topic and sorry but had there been any talk of the VFR towers working reduced hours to go back to normal hours?
Exactly why trainees shouldn’t be used for staffing and why the training initiative was good
 

BigEggplant

Trusted Contributor
Messages
139
Management at my facility simply said “ the FAA doesn’t think it is safe to have a controller who has only worked 32 hours on position in the past year to come back in and be good to go.”

That is logical, but tbh sitting at home on CPC-12 pay having no ability to come back in and be useful doesn’t sit well with me. I’ve seen people let go for losing their medical permanently, and while I agree there wouldn’t be a large scale RIF, I do not want to be one of the “COVID 400” (referencing to the New York 12 who were fired and took 3+ years to sure for their jobs back)...

It doesn’t make logical sense to bring high risk people back, but the COVID procedures and reduced positions at least make the risk as low as going to the supermarket. My sister is a school teacher and she’s pretty confident in their procedures they have in place for in-person class. If the FAA had never sent high risk people on EA to begin with, I don’t think many would have stayed home on SL.

In terms of the training hold, I get it to some degree, but if people are opening a D side and working as close as they would be while getting OJT on the R side, it kind of makes no sense. I hope facilities get some type of local discretion going forward.
 

OKbusyB

Trusted Contributor
Messages
377
Just goes to show this past 8 months has been a complete wash if they can knee jerk bring us all back in a week. Not about health and safety because COVID levels are higher than they’ve ever been. Not about traffic levels because they’ve been the same for months.

Now we’ll just D side random yellow/red sectors for one trainee to get 2-3 hours a week and extended everyone else’s training time out 2-3 years. We’ll just get our 8 hours for the month and be sent home. Gonna be a blast.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
3,999
Just goes to show this past 8 months has been a complete wash if they can knee jerk bring us all back in a week. Not about health and safety because COVID levels are higher than they’ve ever been. Not about traffic levels because they’ve been the same for months.

Now we’ll just D side random yellow/red sectors for one trainee to get 2-3 hours a week and extended everyone else’s training time out 2-3 years. We’ll just get our 8 hours for the month and be sent home. Gonna be a blast.
Don’t forget next summer when staffing is gonna be too low to train and everyone is working OT to cover the ever increasing traffic
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
3,999
While I don’t think summer 21 is going to be a return to summer 19 levels. It’s going to be quickly accelerating assuming the vaccine is widespread by April. Which it looks like it will be
 

Soham

Active Member
Messages
62
Don’t forget next summer when staffing is gonna be too low to train and everyone is working OT to cover the ever increasing traffic

You realize projected staffing is showing better for most facilities (nearly every center) on the Priority Placement Tool this month compared to pre-covid right? I mean our TRACON just lost 4 people to the NCEPT and a retiree with 2 more ERRing next year and guess what... we're still training just fine and will train even better when traffic returns.

You're so doom and gloom.
 

Here4thedrama

Member
Messages
53
Management at my facility simply said “ the FAA doesn’t think it is safe to have a controller who has only worked 32 hours on position in the past year to come back in and be good to go.”

That is logical, but tbh sitting at home on CPC-12 pay having no ability to come back in and be useful doesn’t sit well with me. I’ve seen people let go for losing their medical permanently, and while I agree there wouldn’t be a large scale RIF, I do not want to be one of the “COVID 400” (referencing to the New York 12 who were fired and took 3+ years to sure for their jobs back)...

It doesn’t make logical sense to bring high risk people back, but the COVID procedures and reduced positions at least make the risk as low as going to the supermarket. My sister is a school teacher and she’s pretty confident in their procedures they have in place for in-person class. If the FAA had never sent high risk people on EA to begin with, I don’t think many would have stayed home on SL.

In terms of the training hold, I get it to some degree, but if people are opening a D side and working as close as they would be while getting OJT on the R side, it kind of makes no sense. I hope facilities get some type of local discretion going forward.
I agree that the procedures in place should make people feel comfortable enough to come back in the building. However, it’s had to find an equivalent reference such as you mentioned a school teacher well most the schools in this area closed back down. Some because so much staff is out they can’t run and some the counties are shutting down entire districts. Kids going in and out of schools is ridiculous too and some schools have had little to no cases and the mayors just like f it everyone is closed. How is that efficient? I just feel like we in the same knee jerk BS.
Everyone back...shit...everyone out. Everyone train..shit..stop training.
They can’t decide and there’s no easy solution, but overall I think people are tired of it.
 
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