Training hold

32andBelow

Legendary Member
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3,999
You realize projected staffing is showing better for most facilities (nearly every center) on the Priority Placement Tool this month compared to pre-covid right? I mean our TRACON just lost 4 people to the NCEPT and a retiree with 2 more ERRing next year and guess what... we're still training just fine and will train even better when traffic returns.

You're so doom and gloom.
You realize all the facilities are going to have a 1-2 year gap between their last current trainee training and their next one right?
 

BigEggplant

Trusted Contributor
Messages
139
I agree that the procedures in place should make people feel comfortable enough to come back in the building. However, it’s had to find an equivalent reference such as you mentioned a school teacher well most the schools in this area closed back down. Some because so much staff is out they can’t run and some the counties are shutting down entire districts. Kids going in and out of schools is ridiculous too and some schools have had little to no cases and the mayors just like f it everyone is closed. How is that efficient? I just feel like we in the same knee jerk BS.
Everyone back...shit...everyone out. Everyone train..shit..stop training.
They can’t decide and there’s no easy solution, but overall I think people are tired of it.
Haha yeah they aren’t going back after thanksgiving, doing remote again, but at least the FAA pretends to care and my tower is not in MAGAland so most/all people follow the mask rules. We are also still 5x5 til at least EOY, and if I was really super concerned I would work straight mids, although I feel like the fucked up sleep would be worse for my health than anything else lol.
 

Here4thedrama

Member
Messages
53
You realize all the facilities are going to have a 1-2 year gap between their last current trainee training and their next one right?

I actually don’t believe this is true for “all”. We have enough in line to get us through the gap. Plenty coming from the academy and people from the February and July ncept. Obviously waiting in line..Not saying that’s going to keep everyone afloat but not losing anymore people prior to certifying those will balance it out okay. However, we weren’t dying for staffing prior to.

Haha yeah they aren’t going back after thanksgiving, doing remote again, but at least the FAA pretends to care and my tower is not in MAGAland so most/all people follow the mask rules. We are also still 5x5 til at least EOY, and if I was really super concerned I would work straight mids, although I feel like the fucked up sleep would be worse for my health than anything else lol.
You get use to the straight mids, but yes it’s nice to not be in contact with as many people. I did better with those than the double mids at the end of the week of a rattler.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
3,999
You realize I said my facility is training. We're about to certify someone. Not all facilities suck at getting shit done.
Yah those people are training. I am one of them. But there are tons of people in stage 2 and 3 that aren’t moving through the process. So there is going to be a huge gap between our group. And the next group.
 

Soham

Active Member
Messages
61
Yah those people are training. I am one of them. But there are tons of people in stage 2 and 3 that aren’t moving through the process. So there is going to be a huge gap between our group. And the next group.

I just dont agree. Maybe some places are really bad but we've got 6 trainees on the floor that are getting 2.5 hrs of training per day when they work. We have 2 academy arrivals and a prior experience inbound that arent even out of the classroom yet. We're literally training just as much if not more than we were pre-covid to ensure our ATM can't switch us off 5/5's back to 5/2's. Training times are going to be way down for most people if the Training Initiative is upheld again. When I trained at this same facility I was lucky to get 1hr of training a day with many days of no training. I think most facilities will bounce back quickly unless people withhold certification because they're waiting for the summer traffic or some bullshit like that.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
3,999
I just dont agree. Maybe some places are really bad but we've got 6 trainees on the floor that are getting 2.5 hrs of training per day when they work. We have 2 academy arrivals and a prior experience inbound that arent even out of the classroom yet. We're literally training just as much if not more than we were pre-covid to ensure our ATM can't switch us off 5/5's back to 5/2's. Training times are going to be way down for most people if the Training Initiative is upheld again. When I trained at this same facility I was lucky to get 1hr of training a day with many days of no training. I think most facilities will bounce back quickly unless people withhold certification because they're waiting for the summer traffic or some bullshit like that.
Are you at a tower or a center? Cus center requires 4-6 month long courses and we have like 30 people waiting for this course. And that’s the first course. Also 2 hours of training is horrible. Some sectors can take 80 hours to certify. And 2 hours a day would take 40 work days or 80 total days since we only work half the days. And some areas have 7-9 sectors. Any part of the training process not happening will cause massive delays in the future
 

Mike Kilo

Legendary Member
Messages
1,606
I actually don’t believe this is true for “all”. We have enough in line to get us through the gap. Plenty coming from the academy and people from the February and July ncept. Obviously waiting in line..Not saying that’s going to keep everyone afloat but not losing anymore people prior to certifying those will balance it out okay. However, we weren’t dying for staffing prior to.

32 likes to speak in absolutes as if his Z and thoughts on how things work are set in stone and don’t differ at other facilities.
 

Soham

Active Member
Messages
61
Are you at a tower or a center? Cus center requires 4-6 month long courses and we have like 30 people waiting for this course. And that’s the first course. Also 2 hours of training is horrible. Some sectors can take 80 hours to certify. And 2 hours a day would take 40 work days or 80 total days since we only work half the days. And some areas have 7-9 sectors. Any part of the training process not happening will cause massive delays in the future
Up/down tracon. We're in the top 10 for longest training times in the NAS according the the PPT, longer than some centers. Should it be? No, but it was worse which is embarrassing but it's starting to finally change.
 
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Mike Kilo

Legendary Member
Messages
1,606
Where’s the lie lol
I’m not saying you’re lying, just that you assume your experience applies to the whole NAS. Different flight surgeons have different determinations for Covid contact and restrictions. Different facilities arbitrarily assign sick leave or EA for Covid contact etc.

That’s all, carry on.
 

Saltier

Member
Messages
37
I've been at work the entire time and haven't trained since the late Oct because we keep losing people to quarantine time. The lifted training hold doesn't do any good when you only have five people on shift and need at least four positions open. Hopefully at the end of Nov when we merge crews I will actually get to train again.

Off topic and sorry but had there been any talk of the VFR towers working reduced hours to go back to normal hours?
When did you decide you wanted to train again? Last post I saw you were happily enjoying 5/10. Does merge crews mean BWS? that's the obvious solution to get training done.
Exactly why trainees shouldn’t be used for staffing and why the training initiative was good
There was a good balance at some places once upon a time. It doesn't have to be black or white... train when it's appropriate and sometimes you get to season/work the scopes/positions you are certified on. It's not the worst thing in the world. To be continually used as staffing, now that's bullshit.
 

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
3,999
When did you decide you wanted to train again? Last post I saw you were happily enjoying 5/10. Does merge crews mean BWS? that's the obvious solution to get training done.

There was a good balance at some places once upon a time. It doesn't have to be black or white... train when it's appropriate and sometimes you get to season/work the scopes/positions you are certified on. It's not the worst thing in the world. To be continually used as staffing, now that's bullshit.
Yah a lot of places it was turning into constant staffing everyone could have longer breaks. I get it if there’s a bunch of bang outs.
 

Billybob

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
349
Facility
ZLA Los Angeles Center
32 likes to speak in absolutes as if his Z and thoughts on how things work are set in stone and don’t differ at other facilities.
Animated GIF
 

GulfBravoPapa

Forum Sage
Messages
1,189
When did you decide you wanted to train again? Last post I saw you were happily enjoying 5/10. Does merge crews mean BWS? that's the obvious solution to get training done.
We resumed training mid to late Sept... and no, we are still 5/10 right now. That's the problem. If you want to train than make it possible to train and go to two crews. If you want three crews to reduce the chances of going ATC-0 cool. But right our "training" is a farce. I knew when the email went out that we were going to train on 5/10 that it wasn't going to be feasible but apparently that wasn't evident to those making decisions. Although nobody really knew covid would spike like this knocking out multiple members of each crew so here we are.
 
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