The contract also states you will work 40 hours a week. So you are breaking the contract also. I’m not saying I like any of this nor do I believe this is good for us long term or now. But saying they broke the contract isn’t the whole picture and ignoring other current situations.
Training hold
- Thread starter Stinger
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A D-Side may be necessary to manage current traffic. Training is never necessary to manage current traffic. Personally, I prefer to simply manage what comes my way rather than sit 2 feet from a D-side. With current traffic, D-sides really aren't necessary most of the time they are there.
As to the justification that we need to train for when traffic returns, well, it's not going to return for quite some time. The best guess I've seen is it won't be back to pre-pandemic levels until at least 2025. One reason is that the pandemic forces business to modernize, and they have realized they don't need to have employees travelling nearly as much as they were. That travel simply won't return. There are some number of years, not months, until traffic will require current trainees be certified.
The agency can't eliminate exposure, but they can minimize. By your logic, either we should shut the NAS down completely or resume normal operations.
32andBelow
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United Announces 2020 Financial Results: 2021 Will Focus On Transition To Recovery; Expects To Exceed 2019 Adjusted EBITDA Margin By 2023*
Company continues to improve core cash burn in the face of continued COVID-19 headwinds; sharpens focus to prepare for recovery
hub.united.com
United says 2023. And they doesn’t mean 2022 won’t be 90+%.
Allegiant Reports December 2020 Traffic | Allegiant Travel Company
The Investor Relations website contains information about Allegiant Travel Company's business for stockholders, potential investors, and financial analysts.
demand increasing for spring break and summer.
delta improvement
all the indicators are improving. We are going to get our dicks kicked off starting this summer.
Yes. Resume normal operations
Well, you can wish in one hand
32andBelow
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What exactly has the faa done that makes you think they’d are going to be ready for traffic to return? Not only have they stopped AG training. They allowed a bunch of CPC ITs to become decertified and are not training at their new facilities.
AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise
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If a D-Side is occasionally necessary as you stated and we’re allowed to violate distancing protocols then an argument for entirely stopping training just doesn’t make sense. You and I disagree on the strategy going forward, but I guess that’s because we’re in different situations. I don’t think we should wait until pre-pandemic traffic levels for certification. If the FAA did that after 9/11 no one would have certified since. At some point the FAA is going to have to certify people on current levels of traffic or we’re going to have a staffing crisis in 5 years as people continue to retire but nobody is certifying in the same timeframe.
I don't think we should wait for pre-pandemic levels for certification. I do think that suspending training for the next 4 or 5 months until herd immunity is reached through prior infection and vaccinations is absolutely justifiable.
ClearanceClarence
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Trainees have been told “just a few more months” for a year. At some point, enough is enough. I’ve been an FAA employee for almost 2 years and don’t have any time on a position at all. Tell me you wouldn’t have been pissed as hell if you had been in the same position when you were hired. I’m likely looking at a minimum of 5 years to CPC now, and the people coming out of the Academy will probably need to wait even longer. All while we’re still forced out of the job at 56 and unable to make up lost time.
I would be disappointed. Most controllers had delays in their training. I didn't like the delays in my training but accepted the rationale for the delays. This is by far the most justifiable delay I've seen.
32andBelow
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These people still have the normal delays on top of the covid delays. I was already delayed 5 months for gov shutdown
Logical_Mongoose
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I'll never understand people who want training to be a bad experience because it was a bad experience for them. There is a massive difference between forging skills in fire and just plain sadism; a lot of people are falling on the wrong side of that line.
ClearanceClarence
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But again, it’s not comparable. A week or a month or a 3 month delay in someone’s training is understandable. A year long, across the board halt in training for people in unfathomable. Do you honestly believe there’s absolutely no workable solution that could be constructed besides “have everyone sit at home until everything’s fixed?”
It’s easy to say “just wait a couple more months” and “everyone had delays” when you never had to deal with anything even close to this, and it’s not your career and your earnings that are being flushed down the toilet.
It is possible to have had a good training experience despite delays. I'm certain of this because I did. It's also possible to understand that trainees loathe the current delay but believe that it is justifiable.
ClearanceClarence
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So what to you is a “justifiable” delay? What if, a year from now, herd immunity has not been reached and there are still facilities who haven’t met the magic gating criteria? How about 2 years from now? 5? At some point you have to say the status quo isn’t working and come up with some fresh ideas and workable solutions.
32andBelow
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The best part about the gating criteria is if it is met everyone will be recalled and then if it gets worse everyone stays. Like what’s that supposed to do.
Your delays up until this point are not going away. That's just a fact.
Right now, we have a COVID vaccine, about 1 in 4 people in the US have had or currently have the virus, and the new administration is taking responsibility for distributing the vaccine. Traffic is not going to be at levels not manageable by current CPCs for some number of years. So, an additional several month delay in training will not have significant impact on the NAS. Current accurate information is what should be used to determine current and future training delays. I know it sucks for current trainees, but I still believe it's 100% justifiable to believe that herd immunity will be achieved in the next several months and that delaying training until that time is the appropriate move to protect the workforce. I'm not sure which of these points you disagree with, or if you just want to start training regardless of the health impact because you want your raises. It sounds like it's the latter, but I may just be reading into it.
32andBelow
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Your traffic ramp up figures are very pessimistic. And the current number of CPCs is declining
And, current staffing is the best it's been in 15 years.
Phillyman2633
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Damn bro this mf spittin for once
Dude, they’ve got everything figured out. I just come on here to be educated by them on everything - EO, MOU, CBA, efficacy, future staffing questions - they’ve got all the answers.
The only thing they can’t help you out with is getting you a break because they’re not allowed to talk to airplanes.
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