kombucha23
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I know everyone wants to get moved somewhere else, but at what point do you consider management an option? Are the downsides worse than the upsides?
They still get Sunday and night dif. Just no CIC or OJTI.Most people in my experience consider the following:
Pro's:
Getting closer to their family
The ability to go on details that are not beholden to the Union
Career progression, if you want to go somewhere you most likely will eventually get there with time (ie... DC/VA/etc...)
Hopes of eventually attaining a better schedule
Con's
You lose shift differentials (correct me if I am wrong)
You take flak from upper management and the controllers (especially if the ATM wants to do dumb things and you are required to carry them out)
Dress Code (my personal opinion)
Keeping the rotation going to maximise Time on Position (TOP) and continually micromanage at the behest of the front office
This is the biggest con to taking a management job imhoOne of my favorite parts of this job is that it stops when I walk out the door. All of that changes when you go into management. Supervisors are still technically hourly like us but that won’t stop your ATM or OM from bothering you when you aren’t at work.
YMMV. I've heard of supes getting fired for dumb crap, but I know of a supe who has multiple harassment complaints and even a couple EEO ones who has been taken off the books a few times but not fired. It's to the point where the employees he has harassed have the grounds to sue the agency.I think the scariest thing is being able to get fired for swearing or something dumb
Having the ability to move and take different jobs can be well worth the extra hassle of taking a supervisor job. Unfortunately, moving around to different supervisor positions and other regional jobs can be (and has been) denied due to the supervisor staffing at whichever location you're moving from. Didn't used to be the case, but the last year or so it's been an issue.I know everyone wants to get moved somewhere else, but at what point do you consider management an option? Are the downsides worse than the upsides?
Dress Code: up to the ATM. Some are business professional. Some say just wear a collared shirt.Dress Code (my personal opinion)
Keeping the rotation going to maximise Time on Position (TOP) and continually micromanage at the behest of the front office
Same as being a controller. Got a phone call from a work number? Let it go to voicemail and see if it's something you actually care about vs something that someone else will handle. There is no requirement that I'm aware of to do work-related things while you're not on duty. If there was, they'd have people designated as on-call or issue a work cell phone to answer during your on-call periods.One of my favorite parts of this job is that it stops when I walk out the door. All of that changes when you go into management. Supervisors are still technically hourly like us but that won’t stop your ATM or OM from bothering you when you aren’t at work.
The pay is definitely not the reason to get into a supervisor position. It makes zero sense to take a supervisor job at the facility you're currently at. Doesn't matter if it's a level 4 or a level 12. At best, you'll make the same amount of money because the pay raise will mostly even out with the lost differentials (CIC/OJT/less night.)The complaints I've heard are mostly pointed out above-if upper management says have everyone do jumping jacks for no reason-you have to carry it out. You're the bad guy no matter what on leave requests etc.
The only payconcern is the jun raises, you get only fed ones and (performance?). I'm not as familiar here
I think the scariest thing is being able to get fired for swearing or something dumb, sure there's protection, but if you run someone the wrong way and they're offended the union can hammer pretty hard. People have hardshipped for swearing in the area so I'd imagine it's pretty crazy trying to manage sometimes.
It’s probably different everywhere and yea you can’t get in trouble for not being on call when you’re off but I know multiple supes from my facility and others where there’s an expectation that they be available(explicit or not).Same as being a controller. Got a phone call from a work number? Let it go to voicemail and see if it's something you actually care about vs something that someone else will handle. There is no requirement that I'm aware of to do work-related things while you're not on duty. If there was, they'd have people designated as on-call or issue a work cell phone to answer during your on-call periods.
You don’t have to pay dues as a controller?Giving yourself a raise by not paying Union dues
Definitely ymmv then, that blows my mindYMMV. I've heard of supes getting fired for dumb crap, but I know of a supe who has multiple harassment complaints and even a couple EEO ones who has been taken off the books a few times but not fired. It's to the point where the employees he has harassed have the grounds to sue the agency.
May be regional dependent on how they handle things.
Because everyone respects and loves a supervisor that can't certify as a controller at that facility. /sGlad you asked this. I'm beginning to look into management and want to know these things too.
The facility best suited for where I live is a place I've washed from before and don't feel I'd succeed at as a controller. I could move, but it'd be a strain on my marriage, as she's pretty locked here for her work. At most I'd only be moving to return in a few years. So my main options are to be capped at a low level tower or become a supe at a high level. Nothing mid-level within reasonable distance from me.
First, would you rather have a shitty supervisor who is a great controller or a great supervisor who is a shitty controller?Because everyone respects and loves a supervisor that can't certify as a controller at that facility. /s
True but when I’m over on departures or arrivals, dodging thunderstorms left/right, and you have no idea what’s going on or the complexity of the situation and just start approving shit for me thinking you’re helping on C2, it’s miserableFirst, would you rather have a shitty supervisor who is a great controller or a great supervisor who is a shitty controller?
Second, I don't feel shame for not hacking it at a high level facility. If you or anyone else feels those people are lesser or unworthy of respect, that's your thing.
The vast portion of how I feel about my supes stems from how they are as supes. I care very little about their controlling skills. A supes job isn't to push tin.
Not to mention, most supes at the facility I'm interested in maintain proficiency on dead traffic.
I don't want anyone in charge of something that they can't do themselves.First, would you rather have a shitty supervisor who is a great controller or a great supervisor who is a shitty controller?
Second, I don't feel shame for not hacking it at a high level facility. If you or anyone else feels those people are lesser or unworthy of respect, that's your thing.
The vast portion of how I feel about my supes stems from how they are as supes. I care very little about their controlling skills. A supes job isn't to push tin.
Not to mention, most supes at the facility I'm interested in maintain proficiency on dead traffic.
This is fair. You don't have to be able to work the push to have a general idea of what's going on.True but when I’m over on departures or arrivals, dodging thunderstorms left/right, and you have no idea what’s going on or the complexity of the situation and just start approving shit for me thinking you’re helping on C2, it’s miserable
I would like to have a supervisor that is aware of the position and at least have an idea of what’s going on. They don’t have to work busy banks but they better know how to separate planes and not create conflicts and be aware of what’s going on in the control room.
I’ve been at two level 11’s and I’ve never seen a “shitty” supervisor who is a good controller. Shitty as in might be a dick and not approve leave etc etc sure... but at least they know what is going on if they’re a good controller. Usually the shitty controller supes are shitty supes too because they have no idea what’s going on. The break rotation blows. They’re paging people back to open up monitors when we’re running visuals.... or they’re paging no one back when arrivals is one holing it tubing