Actual pros/cons of moving to management

kombucha23

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I know everyone wants to get moved somewhere else, but at what point do you consider management an option? Are the downsides worse than the upsides?
 

GulfCharlie

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DoD
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Most people in my experience consider the following:

Pro's:
Getting closer to their family
The ability to go on details that are not beholden to the Union
Career progression, if you want to go somewhere you most likely will eventually get there with time (ie... DC/VA/etc...)
Hopes of eventually attaining a better schedule

Con's
You lose shift differentials (correct me if I am wrong)
You take flak from upper management and the controllers (especially if the ATM wants to do dumb things and you are required to carry them out)
Dress Code (my personal opinion)
Keeping the rotation going to maximise Time on Position (TOP) and continually micromanage at the behest of the front office
 

rugbydog11

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528
Most people in my experience consider the following:

Pro's:
Getting closer to their family
The ability to go on details that are not beholden to the Union
Career progression, if you want to go somewhere you most likely will eventually get there with time (ie... DC/VA/etc...)
Hopes of eventually attaining a better schedule

Con's
You lose shift differentials (correct me if I am wrong)
You take flak from upper management and the controllers (especially if the ATM wants to do dumb things and you are required to carry them out)
Dress Code (my personal opinion)
Keeping the rotation going to maximise Time on Position (TOP) and continually micromanage at the behest of the front office
They still get Sunday and night dif. Just no CIC or OJTI.
 

CF

Assistant to the Regional Moderator
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One of my favorite parts of this job is that it stops when I walk out the door. All of that changes when you go into management. Supervisors are still technically hourly like us but that won’t stop your ATM or OM from bothering you when you aren’t at work.
 

jamisjockey

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635
One of my favorite parts of this job is that it stops when I walk out the door. All of that changes when you go into management. Supervisors are still technically hourly like us but that won’t stop your ATM or OM from bothering you when you aren’t at work.
This is the biggest con to taking a management job imho
 

Phillytroll69

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FAA
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687
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JNU Juneau Tower
The complaints I've heard are mostly pointed out above-if upper management says have everyone do jumping jacks for no reason-you have to carry it out. You're the bad guy no matter what on leave requests etc.
The only payconcern is the jun raises, you get only fed ones and (performance?). I'm not as familiar here
I think the scariest thing is being able to get fired for swearing or something dumb, sure there's protection, but if you run someone the wrong way and they're offended the union can hammer pretty hard. People have hardshipped for swearing in the area so I'd imagine it's pretty crazy trying to manage sometimes.
 

ATCJoe85

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461
I think the scariest thing is being able to get fired for swearing or something dumb
YMMV. I've heard of supes getting fired for dumb crap, but I know of a supe who has multiple harassment complaints and even a couple EEO ones who has been taken off the books a few times but not fired. It's to the point where the employees he has harassed have the grounds to sue the agency.
May be regional dependent on how they handle things.
 

Stinger

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1,494
I know everyone wants to get moved somewhere else, but at what point do you consider management an option? Are the downsides worse than the upsides?
Having the ability to move and take different jobs can be well worth the extra hassle of taking a supervisor job. Unfortunately, moving around to different supervisor positions and other regional jobs can be (and has been) denied due to the supervisor staffing at whichever location you're moving from. Didn't used to be the case, but the last year or so it's been an issue.
Dress Code (my personal opinion)
Keeping the rotation going to maximise Time on Position (TOP) and continually micromanage at the behest of the front office
Dress Code: up to the ATM. Some are business professional. Some say just wear a collared shirt.
TOP: New ATMs come in and try to change the facility to what they had at their prior facility. Like break time and daily scheduling. Got an hour break? ATM wants that down to no more than 30 minutes.
They don't always focus on the good changes.
One of my favorite parts of this job is that it stops when I walk out the door. All of that changes when you go into management. Supervisors are still technically hourly like us but that won’t stop your ATM or OM from bothering you when you aren’t at work.
Same as being a controller. Got a phone call from a work number? Let it go to voicemail and see if it's something you actually care about vs something that someone else will handle. There is no requirement that I'm aware of to do work-related things while you're not on duty. If there was, they'd have people designated as on-call or issue a work cell phone to answer during your on-call periods.
The complaints I've heard are mostly pointed out above-if upper management says have everyone do jumping jacks for no reason-you have to carry it out. You're the bad guy no matter what on leave requests etc.
The only payconcern is the jun raises, you get only fed ones and (performance?). I'm not as familiar here
I think the scariest thing is being able to get fired for swearing or something dumb, sure there's protection, but if you run someone the wrong way and they're offended the union can hammer pretty hard. People have hardshipped for swearing in the area so I'd imagine it's pretty crazy trying to manage sometimes.
The pay is definitely not the reason to get into a supervisor position. It makes zero sense to take a supervisor job at the facility you're currently at. Doesn't matter if it's a level 4 or a level 12. At best, you'll make the same amount of money because the pay raise will mostly even out with the lost differentials (CIC/OJT/less night.)
For the move to make sense, you need to take a downgrade (no more than 3 levels to ensure you stay within the new payband and qualify for career progression) and have the move include a 27k PCS payment.
EDIT: Or upgrade obviously, and bonus with any PCS payment.
 
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ATCJoe85

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461
Glad you asked this. I'm beginning to look into management and want to know these things too.
The facility best suited for where I live is a place I've washed from before and don't feel I'd succeed at as a controller. I could move, but it'd be a strain on my marriage, as she's pretty locked here for her work. At most I'd only be moving to return in a few years. So my main options are to be capped at a low level tower or become a supe at a high level. Nothing mid-level within reasonable distance from me.
 

CF

Assistant to the Regional Moderator
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Same as being a controller. Got a phone call from a work number? Let it go to voicemail and see if it's something you actually care about vs something that someone else will handle. There is no requirement that I'm aware of to do work-related things while you're not on duty. If there was, they'd have people designated as on-call or issue a work cell phone to answer during your on-call periods.
It’s probably different everywhere and yea you can’t get in trouble for not being on call when you’re off but I know multiple supes from my facility and others where there’s an expectation that they be available(explicit or not).

I guess I’m commenting on what I’ve seen and hopefully it’s not the norm but I have a feeling it is.
 

Phillytroll69

Forum Sage
FAA
Messages
687
Facility
JNU Juneau Tower
YMMV. I've heard of supes getting fired for dumb crap, but I know of a supe who has multiple harassment complaints and even a couple EEO ones who has been taken off the books a few times but not fired. It's to the point where the employees he has harassed have the grounds to sue the agency.
May be regional dependent on how they handle things.
Definitely ymmv then, that blows my mind
 

GulfBravoPapa

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Messages
1,610
Glad you asked this. I'm beginning to look into management and want to know these things too.
The facility best suited for where I live is a place I've washed from before and don't feel I'd succeed at as a controller. I could move, but it'd be a strain on my marriage, as she's pretty locked here for her work. At most I'd only be moving to return in a few years. So my main options are to be capped at a low level tower or become a supe at a high level. Nothing mid-level within reasonable distance from me.
Because everyone respects and loves a supervisor that can't certify as a controller at that facility. /s

One con nobody has mentioned is that supervisors do a crap ton of paperwork.
 

DankVectorz

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FAA
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1,809
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N90 New York Tracon
Personally I find just the hour or two a day I’m at the desk as CIC to be so boring and miserable that it would have to be my absolute dream location to make me even think of thinking of taking a sup job. Especially if it’s a place that has OM’s above the FLM’s like most if not all high level facilities do. Then as an FLM you’re whole life is basically working the break schedule and getting blamed for everything from higher up.
 

ATCJoe85

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461
Because everyone respects and loves a supervisor that can't certify as a controller at that facility. /s
First, would you rather have a shitty supervisor who is a great controller or a great supervisor who is a shitty controller?
Second, I don't feel shame for not hacking it at a high level facility. If you or anyone else feels those people are lesser or unworthy of respect, that's your thing.
The vast portion of how I feel about my supes stems from how they are as supes. I care very little about their controlling skills. A supes job isn't to push tin.
Not to mention, most supes at the facility I'm interested in maintain proficiency on dead traffic.
 

HenryTheAce

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First, would you rather have a shitty supervisor who is a great controller or a great supervisor who is a shitty controller?
Second, I don't feel shame for not hacking it at a high level facility. If you or anyone else feels those people are lesser or unworthy of respect, that's your thing.
The vast portion of how I feel about my supes stems from how they are as supes. I care very little about their controlling skills. A supes job isn't to push tin.
Not to mention, most supes at the facility I'm interested in maintain proficiency on dead traffic.
True but when I’m over on departures or arrivals, dodging thunderstorms left/right, and you have no idea what’s going on or the complexity of the situation and just start approving shit for me thinking you’re helping on C2, it’s miserable

I would like to have a supervisor that is aware of the position and at least have an idea of what’s going on. They don’t have to work busy banks but they better know how to separate planes and not create conflicts and be aware of what’s going on in the control room.

I’ve been at two level 11’s and I’ve never seen a “shitty” supervisor who is a good controller. Shitty as in might be a dick and not approve leave etc etc sure... but at least they know what is going on if they’re a good controller. Usually the shitty controller supes are shitty supes too because they have no idea what’s going on. The break rotation blows. They’re paging people back to open up monitors when we’re running visuals.... or they’re paging no one back when arrivals is one holing it tubing
 
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rugbydog11

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528
First, would you rather have a shitty supervisor who is a great controller or a great supervisor who is a shitty controller?
Second, I don't feel shame for not hacking it at a high level facility. If you or anyone else feels those people are lesser or unworthy of respect, that's your thing.
The vast portion of how I feel about my supes stems from how they are as supes. I care very little about their controlling skills. A supes job isn't to push tin.
Not to mention, most supes at the facility I'm interested in maintain proficiency on dead traffic.
I don't want anyone in charge of something that they can't do themselves.
 

ATCJoe85

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Messages
461
True but when I’m over on departures or arrivals, dodging thunderstorms left/right, and you have no idea what’s going on or the complexity of the situation and just start approving shit for me thinking you’re helping on C2, it’s miserable

I would like to have a supervisor that is aware of the position and at least have an idea of what’s going on. They don’t have to work busy banks but they better know how to separate planes and not create conflicts and be aware of what’s going on in the control room.

I’ve been at two level 11’s and I’ve never seen a “shitty” supervisor who is a good controller. Shitty as in might be a dick and not approve leave etc etc sure... but at least they know what is going on if they’re a good controller. Usually the shitty controller supes are shitty supes too because they have no idea what’s going on. The break rotation blows. They’re paging people back to open up monitors when we’re running visuals.... or they’re paging no one back when arrivals is one holing it tubing
This is fair. You don't have to be able to work the push to have a general idea of what's going on.

Also, having only been certified in low and mid level facilities, maybe I have a disconnect here. At our lower level towers, it was often useful for our Supes to work LC even when it was busy so that training could be accomplished on GC/FD. At the mid-level, our supes were only ever really needed if we needed to split a position, and at that point the split positions weren't that complex. They sat on the desk, but paid only a little bit of attention to us. We typically brought it to their attention when something needed to be split, not the other way around. At the high level, it seems that OS rarely take position, but keep a close eye on things so that they can determine what to split, what to close, what to help coordinate, etc. Again, this doesn't mean they have to be able to work the heavy stuff, but they should be trained enough on the area and some positions to have a feel for the operation.
 
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