Actual pros/cons of moving to management

AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise said:
This whole idea baffles me. ATC is the only job I’ve ever worked where my superiors aren’t qualified, and in some cases, aren’t even capable of performing job functions of the people they’re supposedly managing. My raises are dependent on evaluations from supervisors who aren’t qualified to be a D-Side on the position I’m currently working. The supes in my area only become D-side certified on the least complex positions in the area. I’ve seen supes who spend more time on Amazon shopping than working positions. It’s pretty difficult to respect that.
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Have you been in the military?
 
AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise said:
This whole idea baffles me. ATC is the only job I’ve ever worked where my superiors aren’t qualified, and in some cases, aren’t even capable of performing job functions of the people they’re supposedly managing.
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I don’t think this matters too much, does it really matter if the store manager at Walmart does not know how to cash someone out of the director of a distribution facility not know exactly how to sort a box on a pallet on the end of the line?

Centers and the big facilities are run a lot closer to a big box place then smaller facilities where sups are used for staffing sometimes. Most of the time for a cert check they 100% go with the recommendation of the training team, and only don’t certify you if there is a obvious error.
 
AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise said:
This whole idea baffles me. ATC is the only job I’ve ever worked where my superiors aren’t qualified, and in some cases, aren’t even capable of performing job functions of the people they’re supposedly managing. My raises are dependent on evaluations from supervisors who aren’t qualified to be a D-Side on the position I’m currently working. The supes in my area only become D-side certified on the least complex positions in the area. I’ve seen supes who spend more time on Amazon shopping than working positions. It’s pretty difficult to respect that.
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Heard that. Ask any of the guys from the pilot group. The pilots that find their ‘niche’ behind a desk quickly lose their flying skills and lose touch with line flying. Then when they do pick up a trip they generally embarrass themselves.
 
FightingIrish2012 said:
I don’t think this matters too much, does it really matter if the store manager at Walmart does not know how to cash someone out of the director of a distribution facility not know exactly how to sort a box on a pallet on the end of the line?

Centers and the big facilities are run a lot closer to a big box place then smaller facilities where sups are used for staffing sometimes. Most of the time for a cert check they 100% go with the recommendation of the training team, and only don’t certify you if there is a obvious error.
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While I somewhat agree, a director isn’t directly supervising the cashier. There are at least two levels of management between them I’d bet. But that cashiers manager/supervisor better be able to jump in if that person starts throwing up, has a family emergency at home etc. “Should” be the same with us. If it’s short and something happens they should be able to step in and manage what’s going on with each position.
 
An atc sup is supposed to provide general supervision. If they can’t help at all when your in a pickle what’s the point?
 
StealthChain said:
Have you been in the military?
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Nope, but I’ve heard stories.

FightingIrish2012 said:
I don’t think this matters too much, does it really matter if the store manager at Walmart does not know how to cash someone out of the director of a distribution facility not know exactly how to sort a box on a pallet on the end of the line?

Centers and the big facilities are run a lot closer to a big box place then smaller facilities where sups are used for staffing sometimes. Most of the time for a cert check they 100% go with the recommendation of the training team, and only don’t certify you if there is a obvious error.
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This is totally an opinion, but the best managers I’ve ever had weren’t afraid to put their hands in the mud and get dirty with the peasant workers they managed. That’s been my experience in retail, construction, and the restaurant industry as well. I have found managers who are willing to do the hard work are more likely to go to bat for their workers when upper management cast down new policies or strategies that don’t make sense. There’s a level of empathy that comes with that.
My experience with check rides has been similar to what you described above. My supervisor generally defers to my training team recommendations, but I’m sure there have been instances of supervisors disagreeing with trainers.
 
I can agree with some of this.
What I'd expect of my supervisor at a high level facility is that they know when someone needs help, they have a general knowledge of each position, they can decombine a position or two to take the edge off someone who is swamped. And if someone passes out in the middle of a busy session, they either move their ass to get someone into that position to take over, or they do so themselves and are able to do enough so that planes don't hit.

I wouldn't expect my supe to be able to run a line of 12 aircraft 3.00 or 4.00 miles apart on final though.

I.E, you can know the operation without being able to certify. Would it be better if you could certify... sure. And while I know of some who are, I'm not advocating for just any complete dipstick to be able to be a supe at a 12.

Of course, if you already think that anybody who can't certify at a 12 is a dipstick, I won't be able to change your mind.

Mike Kilo said:
While I somewhat agree, a director isn’t directly supervising the cashier. There are at least two levels of management between them I’d bet. But that cashiers manager/supervisor better be able to jump in if that person starts throwing up, has a family emergency at home etc. “Should” be the same with us. If it’s short and something happens they should be able to step in and manage what’s going on with each position.
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If I could make the jump from CPC to OM and skip OS to please everyone, I would.
 
ATCJoe85 said:
I can agree with some of this.
What I'd expect of my supervisor at a high level facility is that they know when someone needs help, they have a general knowledge of each position, they can decombine a position or two to take the edge off someone who is swamped. And if someone passes out in the middle of a busy session, they either move their ass to get someone into that position to take over, or they do so themselves and are able to do enough so that planes don't hit.

I wouldn't expect my supe to be able to run a line of 12 aircraft 3.00 or 4.00 miles apart on final though.

I.E, you can know the operation without being able to certify. Would it be better if you could certify... sure. And while I know of some who are, I'm not advocating for just any complete dipstick to be able to be a supe at a 12.

Of course, if you already think that anybody who can't certify at a 12 is a dipstick, I won't be able to change your mind.


If I could make the jump from CPC to OM and skip OS to please everyone, I would.
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Yet you know the reality is often the exact opposite. Our supes are the ones who were so shit at their jobs as controllers, that they jumped into management and got pencil whipped to a cert
 

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