What's the deal with ERR vs. hardships?

[ClearanceClarence]

They are like this in real life too

It would honestly be entertaining to see some of these people on a control room floor for a day.

 

[32andBelow]

No we’re not.

ATCs don’t rib people?

 

[Phanatical]

Sure thing, bro.

By your own logic a while earlier, I can’t “plan” anything if I haven’t even applied yet.

So make up your mind; which is it?

If you have nothing to contribute to my question, then get off my ass and keep it moving, sir.

Here’s the gist of OP’s question:

Are you or are you not willing to work at any facility in the NAS including OCONUS facilities?

If you answer yes when in reality you are already planning your escape if you don’t get a certain facility, some may consider that lying, or being actively deceptive, on an application for federal government employment.

 

[atc12bsthrowaway]

Sure thing, bro.

By your own logic a while earlier, I can’t “plan” anything if I haven’t even applied yet.

So make up your mind; which is it?

If you have nothing to contribute to my question, then get off my ass and keep it moving, sir.

Your odds of making it past even the academy are pretty low at this point judging by your character. Sorry man, better to roll the dice in another career field, it’s not for everyone. FWIW, a good friend of mine had a very solid hardship scenario but since the issues predated his initial hire date, it was dead in arrival.

 

[SporadicVectors]

I've been doing a lot of research on this site, and I'm genuinely curious as to how to people manage to get to the facility they want to be.

OK, so I know those fortunate enough to get to the FAA Academy are either given (1) En-route or (2) Tower/TRACON.

Scenario 1: En-Route

Let's say someone wants Tower/TRACON but gets En-route.

Let's say they pass the training and get sent to -- God forbid -- ZOA.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from my understanding, the general progression is you certify at your facility first and then file an ERR.

And if that facility's staffing level is below the national average of 85%, then Godspeed because you're handcuffed for all eternity.

So to get around this, I've read trainees (who haven't certified) make up bogus "hardship" claims, like "allergies," to bypass those who've paid their dues and served their time.

And these trainees then get to "cherry-pick" the facility they want to go to.

Is this true? For example, can trainees claim a hardship, bypass those with ERRs and go from ZOA or wherever to a level 9+ tower anywhere they want?

Scenario 2: Tower/TRACON

Let's say someone does get Tower/TRACON.

What would be the fastest way for them to end up where they want to live?

Is the progression to try to finish first in your class and pick a tower -- from the priority list -- with (1) a high staffing rate, (2) a high training success rate and (3) a low training time to get to where you want to be without having to claim a hardship?

What's my end game?

Well, the bottom line is Orlando, Florida, is my home, and if I'm fortunate enough to make it through all the hoops, then I eventually want to return home and work at either MCO Tower or F11 (Central Florida TRACON).

Last question I have, which I'm still a little confused about, is about NCEPT.

I still need to do a little more digging on NCEPT, but:

(A) What is it?
(B) What does it do?
(C) Why is it hated so much?

I know this long, but I'm hoping experienced folks can chime in so others, who are also curious, have access and answers to all of these questions in one thread.

Thanks! 🙂

1. The personalities on here are exactly what you should expect with a lot of controllers so that’s something you’ll have to learn to deal with.
2. You were simply asking a question and probably weighing the pros and cons on whether or not you should apply. It’s your life and you do as you please man so if you want the job, go for it. Just realize it is hard to move around. Worse comes to worst, if you don’t already have a career right now, you just quit the agency and continue with your life and move back to FL to take care of business. Just realize, moving around can be very very hard and there are already many people patiently waiting and frustrated to make a move to their desire facility.

 

[wepa]

Dude, if anything, I've proven I've done my homework and laid out the loopholes clearly.

"Don't hate the player, hate the game," as some of you like to say.

I'm just inquiring.

You could've just answered the question instead of being an ass.

Dude really said "Dont hate the player hate the game". ???‍♂️

 

[ClearanceClarence]

Dude really said "Dont hate the player hate the game". ???‍♂️

He’s not even a player yet. He hasn’t even made it to tryouts. ?

 

[Robert_Boucher]

There's some misinformation in this thread you can 100% get a hardship approved even if it was in play before you got hired. But again this is a small career field and people will talk. And you can bet money that your receiving FACREP or ATM would be asking around to see what type of person you are.

 

[HenryTheAce]

you can bet money that your receiving FACREP or ATM would be asking around to see what type of person you are.

Unless it’s a place like D21, N90, C90, etc then the FACREP & ATM look at every ERR/Hardship and say “come on innnn” no matter who you are.

 

[Spaceforce]

Unless it’s a place like D21, N90, C90, etc then the FACREP & ATM look at every ERR/Hardship and say “come on innnn” no matter who you are.

This is DEN, you talking about me?

 

[32andBelow]

Unless it’s a place like D21, N90, C90, etc then the FACREP & ATM look at every ERR/Hardship and say “come on innnn” no matter who you are.

Yah but your regions gotta let you out first

 

[Phillytroll69]

There's some misinformation in this thread you can 100% get a hardship approved even if it was in play before you got hired. But again this is a small career field and people will talk. And you can bet money that your receiving FACREP or ATM would be asking around to see what type of person you are.

 

[SW]

Here’s the gist of OP’s question:

Are you or are you not willing to work at any facility in the NAS including OCONUS facilities?

If you answer yes when in reality you are already planning your escape if you don’t get a certain facility, some may consider that lying, or being actively deceptive, on an application for federal government employment.

Not to mention OP’s already posted intentions all over this forum. Not hard to figure out who you are the moment they file this exact hardship.

 

[Phillytroll69]

Not to mention OP’s already posted intentions all over this forum. Not hard to figure out who you are the moment they file this exact hardship.

how could you figure out someone who hasn't even been hired yet

 

[Mike Kilo]

how could you figure out someone who hasn't even been hired yet

Can’t be that hard. Only 28k OTS applicants every year give or take….

 

[robertvmarshall]

Can’t be that hard. Only 28k OTS applicants every year give or take….

Or some idiot newbies might just make there username their real name. Then it'd really easy.

 

[Even Steven]

Can’t be that hard. Only 28k OTS applicants every year give or take….

And if I make it, what are you guys gonna do?

Jump me for having a legit hardship when you’ve been the one advocating for people to hardship for “allergies” out of ZOA all over this site?

Look, if I make it, my intention is not to immediately file a hardship if that’s your concern.

My intention is to play by the rules, but you guys are free to believe what you want.

All I did was ask a harmless question, so I don’t appreciate being mocked and attacked for a situation I’m living through and you know nothing about.

 

[CF]

And if I make it, what are you guys gonna do?

Jump me for having a legit hardship when you’ve been the one advocating for people to hardship for “allergies” out of ZOA all over this site?

Look, if I make it, my intention is not to immediately file a hardship if that’s your concern.

My intention is to play by the rules, but you guys are free to believe what you want.

All I did was ask a harmless question, so I don’t appreciate being mocked and attacked for a situation I’m living through and you know nothing about.

The job requires that you be able to relocate anywhere in the US(states+territories). If you aren’t able to do that or have something preventing you from doing that then why would you accept? Taking this job knowing you have family that needs you in a specific place makes you either a liar(not actually a hardship if you’re able to leave them to begin with) or a dick for abandoning family that actually needs you to take some job you may never actually succeed in.