Is switching from controller to supervisor for better money/transfer chances worth it?

[Peter Gibbons]

Not to mention being alive to spend it.

Eh I mean that's somewhat overhyped. I haven't seen too many stories with my own eyes of people keeling over shortly after retirement, thats not to say the health effects of shift work arent real.

What I have seen is many dudes giving half thier TSP to thier wives because of divorce, 20 plus years of missed weekends and holidays, little timmys ball games, etc. For a few extra percentage points when you are too old to truly enjoy it how you could in your prime with a full salary coming in to fund it and the time off to do so.

"I'm gonna wait to retirement to enjoy my life to its fullest" is for chumps.

 

[CoffeeIV]

Thanks for all the useful info. Basically killed any idea I had of taking a staff support specialist job in the near future.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Thanks for all the useful info. Basically killed any idea I had of taking a staff support specialist job in the near future.

You need to do your own math on this and decide if it's worth it for your individual situation. Depending on when you got hired (there was a percentage change in there somewhere), how old you are now and when you got hired, and how long you've been working traffic for it may be worth it to you.

 

[CoffeeIV]

You need to do your own math on this and decide if it's worth it for your individual situation. Depending on when you got hired (there was a percentage change in there somewhere), how old you are now and when you got hired, and how long you've been working traffic for it may be worth it to you.

What's the 1.3% you mentioned a few posts back?

 

[Peter Gibbons]

What's the 1.3% you mentioned a few posts back?

Fers retirement made a change quite a while back for the standard rate. It depends on when you got hired. With an atc retirement you only get 1.7 for 20 years, then you you get the standard fed rate for any years after that, not 1.7.

You always keep your "good time" even if you change jobs, so depending on when you got hired, and how much time you have as a controller you may only be losing a little bit percentage wise off your pension, high 3 still applies to a normal fers retirement, and depending on your age and time in fed service it may not put you too far behind an atc retirement at a reasonable age.

Like I said you have to run the math yourself and decide if it's worth it for you personally, don't listen to an internet forum (even me, especially me). There's formulas available online, The calculators won't let you factor in mixed time.

It's more "best job in the world" shit to say the ATC retirement is light-years ahead of a standard fed retirement for some considering the tradeoffs in the mean time. It comes down to your priorities and your personal situation more than anything. I personally don't want to look back and feel like I missed out on life because of a job I honestly don't like that much and don't get much fulfillment from.

 

[Move78]

What's the 1.3% you mentioned a few posts back?

Isn’t the standard rate, after 20, 1.0

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Isn’t the standard rate, after 20, 1.0

Just went and looked it is, still stands I did the math a while back as an example, For me personally, the hit if i change anytime in the future and still plan on working till 56/57 is less than 7 percent. And I get to enjoy the next however many years without the pitfalls of this career it seems worth it to me.

yes 7 percent is not insignificant, but its also not a deal-breaker for me and nothing you cant make up for with smart TSP and investing outside of that. If 7 percent of your high three is breaking you in retirement, you messed up.

 

[CoffeeIV]

Just went and looked it is, still stands I did the math a while back as an example, For me personally, the hit if i change anytime in the future and still plan on working till 56/57 is less than 7 percent. And I get to enjoy the next however many years without the pitfalls of this career it seems worth it to me.

yes 7 percent is not insignificant, but its also not a deal-breaker for me and nothing you cant make up for with smart TSP and investing outside of that. If 7 percent of your high three is breaking you in retirement, you messed up.

I'm assuming you've been in the agency for at least 10 to 15 years? I've not been in long enough probably so it's like a 15% lower retirement for me currently if I don't factor in a substantial pay raise.

 

[blarg]

Fers retirement made a change quite a while back for the standard rate. It depends on when you got hired. With an atc retirement you only get 1.7 for 20 years, then you you get the standard fed rate for any years after that, not 1.7.

You always keep your "good time" even if you change jobs, so depending on when you got hired, and how much time you have as a controller you may only be losing a little bit percentage wise off your pension, high 3 still applies to a normal fers retirement, and depending on your age and time in fed service it may not put you too far behind an atc retirement at a reasonable age.

Like I said you have to run the math yourself and decide if it's worth it for you personally, don't listen to an internet forum (even me, especially me). There's formulas available online, The calculators won't let you factor in mixed time.

It's more "best job in the world" shit to say the ATC retirement is light-years ahead of a standard fed retirement for some considering the tradeoffs in the mean time. It comes down to your priorities and your personal situation more than anything. I personally don't want to look back and feel like I missed out on life because of a job I honestly don't like that much and don't get much fulfillment from.

This is wrong as far as I'm aware.

Unless this OPM site is not updated, it is still 1% every year past 20. I definitely would've heard about it changing to 1.3% at some point.

Computation

Welcome to opm.gov

www.opm.gov

Special Provision for Air Traffic Controllers, Firefighters, Law Enforcement Officers, Capitol Police, Supreme Court Police, or Nuclear Materials Couriers​

• 1.7% of your high-3 average salary multiplied by your years of service which do not exceed 20, PLUS
• 1% of your high-3 average salary multiplied by your service exceeding 20 years

In fact, I can't find anything about any FERS people getting 1.3% for anything. Can you show me?

If you change jobs, you only get to keep your good time if you qualify for the MRA30 just like a controller, which means you'd still have to work til 56+ and 30 total years. If you do not, you only get a normal FERS retirement, which is only 1% per year. (though I'm not entirely sure what normal FERS requirements are outside of ATC, so you might be forced to meet the MRA30 rules in order to retire anyway)

I'm pretty sure that's why they created the rule in the first place, to allow people who left the floor fairly early on to keep the 1.7% for the time they did work when the finally retire way down the line. It's just also a convenient rule that allows people who do work traffic their whole careers to get a bigger pension out of it, too.

Also, looking back here- you were hired at 27? Talking about working til 57, with 10 years of good time and retiring with 30 years?
so that'd be 17% good time, plus 20% non good time. 37% total at 57.
If you worked traffic the whole time, you'd get 1.7x30 = 51%. 14% more, so I'm not sure where you're getting the 7% from unless I misread?
Though I see you have some military time, too.
And 51%/37%= is a ~38% larger pension in the end. It really is quite a large amount.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

This is wrong as far as I'm aware.

Unless this OPM site is not updated, it is still 1% every year past 20. I definitely would've heard about it changing to 1.3% at some point.

Computation

Welcome to opm.gov

www.opm.gov

Special Provision for Air Traffic Controllers, Firefighters, Law Enforcement Officers, Capitol Police, Supreme Court Police, or Nuclear Materials Couriers​

• 1.7% of your high-3 average salary multiplied by your years of service which do not exceed 20, PLUS
• 1% of your high-3 average salary multiplied by your service exceeding 20 years

In fact, I can't find anything about any FERS people getting 1.3% for anything. Can you show me?

If you change jobs, you only get to keep your good time if you qualify for the MRA30 just like a controller, which means you'd still have to work til 56+ and 30 total years. If you do not, you only get a normal FERS retirement, which is only 1% per year. (though I'm not entirely sure what normal FERS requirements are outside of ATC, so you might be forced to meet the MRA30 rules in order to retire anyway)

I'm pretty sure that's why they created the rule in the first place, to allow people who left the floor fairly early on to keep the 1.7% for the time they did work when the finally retire way down the line. It's just also a convenient rule that allows people who do work traffic their whole careers to get a bigger pension out of it, too.

This is correct I went back and corrected myself a few posts down I did this math a while back fudged the number that was my mistake. Like I said I planned on working till 56 anyways so another year gets me to MRA 30.

Also, looking back here- you were hired at 27? Talking about working til 57, with 10 years of good time and retiring with 30 years?
so that'd be 17% good time, plus 20% non good time. 37% total at 57.
If you worked traffic the whole time, you'd get 1.7x30 = 51%. 14% more, so I'm not sure where you're getting the 7% from unless I misread?
Though I see you have some military time, too.
And 51%/37%= is a ~38% larger pension in the end. It really is quite a large amount.

You only get good time the first 20.


Anything after that is the standard rate, so 7 percent less high 3, or if you want to look at it that way a 15ish percent decrease in your annual income. Again, not insignificant, but definitely an amount you can overcome with smart investing and pre planning for it if it's worth the tradeoffs to the individual.

 

[sixty]

Took supe job to get home and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. The job sucks GIANT sweaty ballz...but its 40 something hours a week and my kids get to grown up with their family.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

I'm assuming you've been in the agency for at least 10 to 15 years? I've not been in long enough probably so it's like a 15% lower retirement for me currently if I don't factor in a substantial pay raise.

Yes. Been in 10. Like I said, you gotta figure out what your "number" is and when it becomes worth the tradeoff.

 

[ABACUS]

Don’t forget about COLA. I did some quick math and they came up the same. (Yes, this years COLA is 7.5)

Retire at 20 years with a 200k avg 3 salary nets you a 68,000 pension. Last five years of COLA and you are up to 82k

Retire at 25 years with a 215k avg 3 salary nets you a 83,850k pension.

 

[blarg]

This is correct I went back and corrected myself a few posts down I did this math a while back fudged the number that was my mistake. Like I said I planned on working till 56 anyways so another year gets me to MRA 30.

You only get good time the first 20.


Anything after that is the standard rate, so 7 percent less high 3, or if you want to look at it that way a 15ish percent decrease in your annual income. Again, not insignificant, but definitely an amount you can overcome with smart investing and pre planning for it if it's worth the tradeoffs to the individual.

If you work as a control position or manager of people who control (controller, FLM, OM), and you work til 57, and more than 30 years, you get 1.7% for ALL years of good time.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

If you work as a control position or manager of people who control (controller, FLM, OM), and you work til 57, and more than 30 years, you get 1.7% for ALL years of good time.

Ahhh see I didn't realize that.

 

[TimShady]

Another option to consider is working traffic/supe for 20 years, then doing another federal job till age 50 and retiring. You’d have the same pension as if you’d been a controller the whole time since the 1.7 stops after 20.

I got hired at 24 so I can retire at age 49 with 25 years ATC or age 50 with 20 years ATC. So I can do something else from age 44-50 and still only retire a year late. Actually 7 months since I got hired in May and my birthday is in December. Yeah, I’ve thought about it…

 

[dingalings99]

If you work as a control position or manager of people who control (controller, FLM, OM), and you work til 57, and more than 30 years, you get 1.7% for ALL years of good time.

What if you joined at 30 like me but have 7 years of military time, can you work 23 years and the 7 makes it 30 then you get the 3 years past 20 count as 1.7?

 

[MJ]

Fers retirement made a change quite a while back for the standard rate

They changed how much people contribute. The pay rate has always been 1.7/1.

 

[blarg]

What if you joined at 30 like me but have 7 years of military time, can you work 23 years and the 7 makes it 30 then you get the 3 years past 20 count as 1.7?

I'm no expert, but I think so? Assuming military time counts toward normal "federal service" FERS years.

Looks like we have a doc here with some of the relevant info in it:

https://pointsixtyfive.com/files/misc/ATC%20Vision%20100%20Retirement%20FAQs.pdf

The downside to retiring right at 57 is your pension doesn't get yearly COLA raises until 62, unlike the normal retirement which gets them immediately. It might be a toss-up either way, unless you plan to work even longer than that...
edit- clarifying the above, in your case, you'd be worse off only gaining 3 years at 1.7%, but missing out on all those years of COLA unless you worked til closer to 62. It's more of a toss up when you're converting all 30+ years, and retiring right at 57.

 

[CoffeeIV]

Military time is 1% according to others.