New York Times names Controller involved with AUS FedEx/Southwest Incident

[CoffeeIV]

Wow I stand corrected

Further reading https://www.americanprogress.org/article/unions-democratically-organized-corporations-not/

Nothing like using a random research organization's definition rather than an actual dictionary. Crazy how NATCA is a corporation and pays taxes like one... oh wait...

Oh and if you actually read your article: "unions and corporations are often lumped together under the incorrect assumption that these two types of organizations are roughly equivalent and thus should be subject to similar rules."

 

[Phillytroll69]

Nothing like using a random research organization's definition rather than an actual dictionary. Crazy how NATCA is a corporation and pays taxes like one... oh wait...

Oh and if you actually read your article: "unions and corporations are often lumped together under the incorrect assumption that these two types of organizations are roughly equivalent and thus should be subject to similar rules."

But we are a democracy we vote on every contract and decision

 

[SquawkHijack]

Being a little picky, aren’t we? I actually thought compared to most aviation articles you read, this one was well researched and coherent. I’m glad they shed light on this situation. The public deserves to know what happened and some factors that played into it. This was a serious event and people actually almost got killed, and that’s not being sensational.

I do have a problem with them naming the controller though. To me, there’s really no reason for it. Why does the public need to know exactly who this controller was? What would they need that information for? The authors use the excuse that the names are usually revealed over the course of the investigation, but I just don’t see the value of “breaking” that part of the story. Other than that, the article was really good, I

I don’t think it’s picky at all to think that “Gunning” the engines of a jet is a recipe for tall-tales. FYI it takes ~8 seconds to experience throttle response from most jet/turboprop engines… I think a reasonable person would say that using such hot-rod, burnout jargon is taking things out of context because I’m pretty sure we all know passenger jet aircraft don’t fly to such effect.

This one event is not sensational on the medias part, no. But the others, reporting any little aviation incident and using inferences that it MAY even remotely involve ATC is definitely sensationalism. On one hand you could say it [naming incidental controllers] could actually hold the agency accountable for bad controllers. On the other hand it undermines the foundation of the safety culture that ATSAP and the FAA foster.

Either way, I for one am not trying to star on America’s Next Top Fuckup at 5:00 because I had 2.8NM.

 

[32andBelow]

I don’t think it’s picky at all to think that “Gunning” the engines of a jet is a recipe for tall-tales. FYI it takes ~8 seconds to experience throttle response from most jet/turboprop engines… I think a reasonable person would say that using such hot-rod, burnout jargon is taking things out of context because I’m pretty sure we all know passenger jet aircraft don’t fly to such effect.

This one event is not sensational on the medias part, no. But the others, reporting any little aviation incident and using inferences that it MAY even remotely involve ATC is definitely sensationalism. On one hand you could say it [naming incidental controllers] could actually hold the agency accountable for bad controllers. On the other hand it undermines the foundation of the safety culture that ATSAP and the FAA foster.

Either way, I for one am not trying to star on America’s Next Top Fuckup at 5:00 because I had 2.8NM.

They are writing to a general audience. What do you want her to say? The pilot then proceeded to apply TOGA power and began executing a missed approach procedure

 

[SquawkHijack]

They are writing to a general audience. What do you want her to say? The pilot then proceeded to apply TOGA power and began executing a missed approach procedure

I knew I couldn’t breathe a word about The Times without you chiming in lol.

And honestly, if she wanted to sound like she more so knew what she was talking about, then yeah that [something along the lines of what you said] would sound a lot better than pumping up the story to make it into something it’s not. Now, in this particular article that effect is lessened by the fact that the incident at AUS she’s writing about was actually pretty damn serious. But let’s be honest with each other, at the end of the day they’re the media… they’re paid to write the most riveting stories they can to attract and retain readers.

 

[32andBelow]

I knew I couldn’t breathe a word about The Times without you chiming in lol.

And honestly, if she wanted to sound like she more so knew what she was talking about, then yeah that [something along the lines of what you said] would sound a lot better than pumping up the story to make it into something it’s not. Now, in this particular article that effect is lessened by the fact that the incident at AUS she’s writing about was actually pretty damn serious. But let’s be honest with each other, at the end of the day they’re the media… they’re paid to write the most riveting stories they can to attract and retain readers.

It’s just we happen to be the experts in this case. Newspaper are written for general audience

 

[PointSixty5stalker]

Bro tried to put two planes together after getting checked out because (allegedly) they were afraid to wash him due to a previous hate crime hoax. How was that not in the article. Unpopular opinion union (brother???) or not. He deserves to have his name printed. On top of his slam poetry, he deserves to have the “terminated” stamp slammed on to his employment application. He makes me and every other POC sick. I can’t stand the words spread around and being marginalized based on a few bad apples. Find another career Mr. Campbell. Face it that this job isn’t for you. Don’t put a black eye on the profession because you can’t cut it. I can do this job. So can others. This whole situation sets an entire group of people back by being associated with this clown. The union needs to look at the individual and take a stand that they are unable to support such behavior. Am I the only member that can’t stand how the unions entire resources are being used to protect the largest class of degenerates? I am ranting like always but I know we can be better and I know we shouldn't be afraid to hold one another accountable. Don’t wash someone just to wash but be able to hold others to a standard and don’t forget that we aren’t playing a video game. Sometimes we forget that there are actual people on these planes. A simple avoidable mistake has the ability to kill 600 people at once. NATCA, I ask you to use use my 2k annual to good use. Not to protect this idiot and send out emails to encourage members to not talk to media and chastise the author. The flying public and tax payers deserve to know the truth.

 

[Spoony90]

Bro tried to put two planes together after getting checked out because (allegedly) they were afraid to wash him due to a previous hate crime hoax. How was that not in the article. Unpopular opinion union (brother???) or not. He deserves to have his name printed. On top of his slam poetry, he deserves to have the “terminated” stamp slammed on to his employment application. He makes me and every other POC sick. I can’t stand the words spread around and being marginalized based on a few bad apples. Find another career Mr. Campbell. Face it that this job isn’t for you. Don’t put a black eye on the profession because you can’t cut it. I can do this job. So can others. This whole situation sets an entire group of people back by being associated with this clown. The union needs to look at the individual and take a stand that they are unable to support such behavior. Am I the only member that can’t stand how the unions entire resources are being used to protect the largest class of degenerates? I am ranting like always but I know we can be better and I know we shouldn't be afraid to hold one another accountable. Don’t wash someone just to wash but be able to hold others to a standard and don’t forget that we aren’t playing a video game. Sometimes we forget that there are actual people on these planes. A simple avoidable mistake has the ability to kill 600 people at once. NATCA, I ask you to use use my 2k annual to good use. Not to protect this idiot and send out emails to encourage members to not talk to media and chastise the author. The flying public and tax payers deserve to know the truth.

Happens a lot. How many times you hear a supe “they’ll be fine, we just gotta watch them”

No b*tch. You signed off on them, You watch them. Don’t be putting that on me for when I’m on CIC.

 

[CaptainObvious]

Happens a lot. How many times you hear a supe “they’ll be fine, we just gotta watch them”

No b*tch. You signed off on them, You watch them. Don’t be putting that on me for when I’m on CIC.

And there’s no recourse once that “watch them period” ends. Brand new CPCs should be watched anyway but not like that. They won’t get certs pulled, everyone else just picks up the slack and includes what they’re doing in their scan

 

[RalphBeast]

ATSAP launched in 2008 as a collaborative effort between NATCA and the FAA and was fully implemented in 2010. ATSAP enables air traffic controllers to voluntarily identify and report safety and operational concerns. ATSAP is non-punitive and the data collected is shared between aviation stakeholders through the Confidential Information Share Program (CISP) and the Aviation Safety Information Analysis and Sharing (ASIAS). By providing a more complete representation of National Airspace System (NAS) operations, NATCA, the FAA, and participating airlines can more accurately identify potential hazards and develop more robust mitigation strategies.

I started in 2008 and remember when we got our first ATSAP briefings very soon after I arrived at my facility. At that time, some of the old-timers were calling it a "get out of jail free card" since they had worked under the old system where if you had a few deals you were just done, I guess. This was most emphasized by a guy who started in like 1983 and was the fattest, laziest controller we had. He knew people referred to him as lazy but he insisted he was not lazy but an "efficiency expert".

Anyway, I didn't and still don't view ATSAP as a get out of jail free card. However, a program like that is almost always going to elicit that type of response and subsequent behavior from a number of controllers. It has the potential to identify and fix some problems, but it enables other problems as well, like making people "not afraid to have deals".

When I started 20+ years ago those a lot of old-timers were still around and yes, that was the system. A string of bad deals = resign or face termination.

We had some of those fat, lazy "efficiency experts" but they were solid controllers at the end of the day. It was much harder to pass the screen at OKC and get certified in the 1980s/1990s and very difficult to "fake it" at a high-level facility for 25+ years as a totally shit controller.

 

[Soul_Controller]

When I started 20+ years ago those a lot of old-timers were still around and yes, that was the system. A string of bad deals = resign or face termination.

We had some of those fat, lazy "efficiency experts" but they were solid controllers at the end of the day. It was much harder to pass the screen at OKC and get certified in the 1980s/1990s and very difficult to "fake it" at a high-level facility for 25+ years as a totally shit controller.

I agree for the most part, but, it was a lot harder to catch a deal, and those dudes definitely hid deals back in the day

 

[slater]

I agree for the most part, but, it was a lot harder to catch a deal, and those dudes definitely hid deals back in the day

Can confirm, when a pilot would say "that was close guys" aka "that's a deal" before squeal a deal arrived. Not many would truly account for the delay in the display delay in many cases was a 12 second radar delay and would just move on with operations and the sketchy controllers would hide in the weeds in the lack of technology.

 

[RalphBeast]

Looks like our boi is back in the spotlight: https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2023/11/30/ntsb-austin-fedex-southwest-close-call/

Some gems from the article:

• “I cannot for the life of me understand how he thought that was going to work,” air traffic manager Stephen Martin told investigators. “This was just really poor judgment.”
• "Capt. Hugo F. Carvajal III later told NTSB investigators that he was irritated when he realized a plane was being cleared to take off in front of his aircraft and asked his co-pilot to confirm they could land."
• Susan Green, the supervisor on duty at the time of the near miss, told the NTSB that Campbell’s handling of the situation “didn’t meet my expectations at all. In this scenario, I never would have rolled that departure."

The superstar controller blamed the whole thing on lack of ASDE-X and the fact that traffic levels at AUS have grown.

 

[CaptainObvious]

First thought. Fuck the supervisors. Those clowns have an idea of what’s going on 0.05% of the time, unless it relates to assigning ELMS. Very convenient that they get to shine in the press

 

[ncssailor]

First thought. Fuck the supervisors. Those clowns have an idea of what’s going on 0.05% of the time, unless it relates to assigning ELMS. Very convenient that they get to shine in the press

The oversight was really doing its job as intended, the Sup should get some remedial training. A CPC staffing the desk would have done a better job. She should be the poster child of “If you see it, Say it”

 

[CaptainObvious]

The oversight was really doing its job as intended, the Sup should get some remedial training. A CPC staffing the desk would have done a better job. She should be the poster child of “If you see it, Say it”

They both call out his judgement. It was poor to be sure, but that ATM hasn’t talked to a plane in almost 15 years

 

[MJ]

Article without paywall

 

[CoffeeIV]

The superstar controller blamed the whole thing on lack of ASDE-X and the fact that traffic levels at AUS have grown.

While I do think he fucked up badly and in no way was what he did ever going to work I think his complaint is justified.

Austin's traffic count has increased by about 25-30% of what it was doing pre-covid. They're doing more traffic now than they've done ever according to ATADS. Almost 100k more operations compared to 10 years ago. Core-30's should have ASDE-X and if most other similar ranked facilities have it, why doesn't AUS?

2022 - 272,639
2019 - 210,084 (pre-covid)
2012 - 177,105

 

[MJ]

The insult "covid checkout" doesn't really apply here.

gotta checkout to be a covid checkout

 

[CoffeeIV]

gotta checkout to be a covid checkout

Yeah I removed that already. Plus my use of it was bad anyways.