2 Jets collide at HOU. What happened?

[TangoTangoTango]

Maybe in another decade, once more BUE's actually realize ATC has turned into a minimum wage, dead end job. They're too busy right now self congratulating themselves for barely surpassing 100k (aka the new 50k), in 2023.....far too many controllers thinking they are upper crust east coast liberal elites when they are lower middle class paupers these days. Some of these poor boys still haven't even hit the fica cap.....

While I generally agree with most of what you say, these “minimum wage” arguments you often make are literal hyperbole. You’ve been with the agency long enough to get detached from the real world if you think your level 12 pay is in the same universe as minimum wage. Your hourly is probably at least like 4x the national average/12x the minimum wage. Low level facilities or FCT in high COLA? Sure, make that argument.

Now with that said, yes our spending power is down and we’re now underpaid, staffing sucks, morale sucks, schedules are abhorrent, management sucks, the agency sucks, NATCA sucks only a little less, endless training and being handcuffed on washing out shit trainees sucks, on and on and on. There are countless things that need improvement/overhauling and push back without making nonsense arguments like that. Regardless, #razewen

 

[CoffeeIV]

Maybe in another decade, once more BUE's actually realize ATC has turned into a minimum wage, dead end job. They're too busy right now self congratulating themselves for barely surpassing 100k (aka the new 50k), in 2023.....far too many controllers thinking they are upper crust east coast liberal elites when they are lower middle class paupers these days. Some of these poor boys still haven't even hit the fica cap.....

Tens of thousands of applicants every year. But sure, no one wants this job and it's so underpaying.

I honestly wonder how you're so bad with your finances. I'm living great and find it hilarious when I see you complaining about money. Also what's the research showing 100k is the same as 50k? I'd love to see it.

 

[MoreMoneyLessProblems]

Tens of thousands of applicants every year. But sure, no one wants this job and it's so underpaying.

I honestly wonder how you're so bad with your finances. I'm living great and find it hilarious when I see you complaining about money. Also what's the research showing 100k is the same as 50k? I'd love to see it.

It’s called inflation, there I just helped with your research.

 

[CoffeeIV]

It’s called inflation, there I just helped with your research.

From when? 3 years? 40 years? Like how are you guys so poor? Stop investing in shitcoins.

Our pay has kept up with inflation, use some real data and not your bank accounts. You choose your life and your purchases. If youre poor its your fault. See a lot of you like to keep arguing that the pilots got a pay raise so why dont I. You just willfully ignore or dont know that they went years without actual raises due to their old contracts being up. So now that they got their raises they've only slightly gotten more than we have. Just in 5 years we've had a 19.3% pay raise on average. Unheard of for most of America.

Most of you know so little outside of this job and according to the news you know little about it.

 

[Spoony90]

I’m pretty broke after my divorce. I need a raise lol

 

[MoreMoneyLessProblems]

From when? 3 years? 40 years? Like how are you guys so poor? Stop investing in shitcoins.

Our pay has kept up with inflation, use some real data and not your bank accounts. You choose your life and your purchases. If youre poor its your fault.

Wrong and wrong, if our pay kept up with inflation then by your own logic anybody in CA or NY would be able to afford housing. No roommates. And yet you’re still considered low income making over 100k a year in the Bay Area. Care to explain to me how the FUCK someone is supposed to make ends meet when they’re considered low income on a CPC salary?

 

[CoffeeIV]

Wrong and wrong, if our pay kept up with inflation then by your own logic anybody in CA or NY would be able to afford housing. No roommates. And yet you’re still considered low income making over 100k a year in the Bay Area. Care to explain to me how the FUCK someone is supposed to make ends meet when they’re considered low income on a CPC salary?

Are you telling me no controllers own houses in NY or CA? Is that your position? Ill place you on ignore now because I know many personally that do so come up with some legit facts and stop making stuff up. If YOU are poor its YOUR fault.

Nice throwaway though.

 

[MoreMoneyLessProblems]

Are you telling me no controllers own houses in NY or CA? Is that your position? Ill place you on ignore now because I know many personally that do so come up with some legit facts and stop making stuff up. If YOU are poor its YOUR fault.

Nice throwaway though. Sucks to suck.

Did I SAY that no controllers own houses there? No I didn’t, what I did say is that even making CPC in the Bay Area you’re still considered low income. It’s not impossible to own a house but it’s a LOT more difficult when tech bros are making double and triple what you make to work from home and driving housing prices through the roof. But go ahead, place somebody on ignore just because they have a different opinion than you. Very NATCA response. If somebody in this job is poor it’s not necessarily their fault. I can’t imagine trying to start this job in 2023 and trying to find a place to live where rates are 8% or higher. Just because you aren’t struggling doesn’t mean others aren’t who are genuinely trying their best. Quit being an arrogant ass and accept that for some people, a raise could help. Fucking narcissist.

 

[abc1234]

If YOU are poor its YOUR fault.

Nice throwaway though.

Fuck off with this bro. Sure maybe we aren't lower class and can afford to make ends meet, but that's not the point. Part of the reason we are supposed to be highly paid is because we are in an extremely high stress environment and responsible for thousands of lives on a daily basis, so they should be doing everything they can to remove any external factors that might increase our stress levels, and that includes making sure we are financially well. We shouldn't be thinking about how we're going to pay our student loans while telling someone to LUAW. We should be fucking rolling in it bro. And anyone who says otherwise can fuck off.

And don't give me any "fiscal responsibility" shit. If we have $100 billion to pay for genocide, we have money for a raise now. I said here before it would cost a measly 1B to pump every controller's salary up by $75,000, which they can easily collect with a ONE DOLLAR increase to the passenger ticket tax.

 

[Raise when?]

Tens of thousands of applicants every year. But sure, no one wants this job and it's so underpaying.

I honestly wonder how you're so bad with your finances. I'm living great and find it hilarious when I see you complaining about money. Also what's the research showing 100k is the same as 50k? I'd love to see it.

Fwiw, I have a 7 figure net worth. I have close to 600k in tsp alone. It’s not about that, I deserve more pay - period. We are falling behind badly. And that being said, a million dollars is not what it was even a few years ago. The dollar has been slashed in value.

What does a 4 year college degree cost vs 2010. The average house? Hell, The average loaded pickup truck? You can’t even enjoy a day outside with your family under $100 in 2023

While I generally agree with most of what you say, these “minimum wage” arguments you often make are literal hyperbole. You’ve been with the agency long enough to get detached from the real world if you think your level 12 pay is in the same universe as minimum wage. Your hourly is probably at least like 4x the national average/12x the minimum wage. Low level facilities or FCT in high COLA? Sure, make that argument.

It is hyperbole. And that’s okay, I partially post to enjoy myself. I think it’s funny and hopefully it makes some controllers wake up at the same time. #RAZEWEN

I’m pretty broke after my divorce. I need a raise lol

yes, our career probably is among top 5 careers for divorces due to the shitschedule! Another reason why we need a raise. We will be paying hella alimony throughout most of our careers, and I got divorced as well lol

Fuck off with this bro. Sure maybe we aren't lower class and can afford to make ends meet, but that's not the point. Part of the reason we are supposed to be highly paid is because we are in an extremely high stress environment and responsible for thousands of lives on a daily basis, so they should be doing everything they can to remove any external factors that might increase our stress levels, and that includes making sure we are financially well. We shouldn't be thinking about how we're going to pay our student loans while telling someone to LUAW. We should be fucking rolling in it bro. And anyone who says otherwise can fuck off.

And don't give me any "fiscal responsibility" shit. If we have $100 billion to pay for genocide, we have money for a raise now. I said here before it would cost a measly 1B to pump every controller's salary up by $75,000, which they can easily collect with a ONE DOLLAR increase to the passenger ticket tax.

abc1234 is down with the #RAZEWEN mvmt. Why won't CoffeeIV join us? The water's warm....

 

[Spoony90]

yes, our career probably is among top 5 careers for divorces due to the shitschedule! Another reason why we need a raise. We will be paying hella alimony throughout most of our careers, and I got divorced as well lol

Lol well to be fair. It was 100 percent my fault. Learned my lesson with sleeping with co workers tho!

 

[Raise when?]

Lol well to be fair. It was 100 percent my fault. Learned my lesson with sleeping with co workers tho!

The shitschedule forced you to have time away from your ex wife, leading to a lack of intimacy, which led to you being forced to have a "release" with a coworker due to the high stress nature of the job. The FAA should be paying you more for your service, my brother

 

[CoffeeIV]

And don't give me any "fiscal responsibility" shit. If we have $100 billion to pay for genocide, we have money for a raise now. I said here before it would cost a measly 1B to pump every controller's salary up by $75,000, which they can easily collect with a ONE DOLLAR increase to the passenger ticket tax.

Genocide lol. Good one. Didn't expect to see some antisemitic takes in the thread about a controller screwing up.

And yeah I will say fiscal responsibility. I live far better than I did 5 years ago, 10 years ago, etc etc. I cannot relate to any of you whining. You obviously did something wrong in your life if youre that bad off.

 

[Phillytroll69]

Are you telling me no controllers own houses in NY or CA? Is that your position? Ill place you on ignore now because I know many personally that do so come up with some legit facts and stop making stuff up. If YOU are poor its YOUR fault.

Nice throwaway though.

The old controllers do
The new controllers cannot afford the same

Wages have not kept up.

 

[abc1234]

Genocide lol. Good one. Didn't expect to see some antisemitic takes in the thread about a controller screwing up.

And yeah I will say fiscal responsibility. I live far better than I did 5 years ago, 10 years ago, etc etc. I cannot relate to any of you whining. You obviously did something wrong in your life if youre that bad off.

Where did I say anything antisemitic? Nice try.

 

[Spoony90]

The shitschedule forced you to have time away from your ex wife, leading to a lack of intimacy, which led to you being forced to have a "release" with a coworker due to the high stress nature of the job. The FAA should be paying you more for your service, my brother

Lmao! That’s good. They wouldn’t even let me hardship to be closer to my kids. But a pay raise, I’d happily take

 

[MoreMoneyLessProblems]

The old controllers do
The new controllers cannot afford the same

Wages have not kept up.

See that’s exactly what I tried saying earlier. While we have received raises better than most in the US that doesn’t mean our wages have kept up. In the early 2000’s the wages were different. This isn’t the same ballgame anymore.

 

[Phillytroll69]

See that’s exactly what I tried saying earlier. While we have received raises better than most in the US that doesn’t mean our wages have kept up. In the early 2000’s the wages were different. This isn’t the same ballgame anymore.

Actually we have done just OK. Federal raises are usually just that, just OK. The problem is that other industries are catching up and getting more. Who do we compare ourselves to? Police, firefighters? The military? Specialized tech people?

I don't think that anyone should struggle to get to a higher level facility if desired and have a moderate single family home and two moderate cars on a single income...but that's just my opinion.

You couldn't necessarily do it at the low level facilities in the 90s, but you'd be OK at the mid level.

Part of it is the housing crisis and inflation so hopefully next contract catches us up.

The pension is the big hitter for us and what keeps me on board BUT we get less tsp (401) matching, no student loan matching, no work from home days, the closest to an admin day is elms.

We are far from a BAD job.

I'd say we have a good job except the people that are legit stuck.

I also think we should try and make it a great job-
Tiered overtime

Allow napping on breaks and make bunks or nap pods, sorry these chairs and couches suck.

Admin/elms day work from home once a month

Crew meetings off the floor.

Of course more money is great, but that's also a congressional approval.

We 'collaborate' on so much and yet the Solidarity, morale, and involvement just dwindle. I'm yet to see things that we got through our union that weren't extended to all government employees. (Parental leave and shutdown laws were for all government employees)

BUT don't discount the fact that our sick leave policy is amazing. You don't have assigned 2 hour goes every day (just most days at poorly staffed places)

Yeah we have a good job but we should fight for some more to make it great

 

[Top5fatcat]

He always does this. He hates controllers, hates NATCA, hates everyone except supervisors and Mayor Pete 💙

Pete BootyCheeks cant solve this, its up to Mr. Whitaker!

p.s. its funny that my "unhinged rant" has twice as many likes to dislikes!

 

[Fat Porrey]

Tens of thousands of applicants every year. But sure, no one wants this job and it's so underpaying.

I honestly wonder how you're so bad with your finances. I'm living great and find it hilarious when I see you complaining about money. Also what's the research showing 100k is the same as 50k? I'd love to see it.

Simply put: you’re an idiot.

You can get paid $25million per year and be underpaid.

If the Chiefs tried to pay Mahomes $30million per year he’d be underpaid.

A surgeon making $300k is underpaid. Pilots making $150k, given what the majors now pay, are underpaid.

You keep equating making an above poverty level pay with not needing a raise. Idiot.

Most of us on here like Raise when? and others who work real traffic (level 11 or 12) should be making $300k before OT. OT is taking time away from your life so it should never be included in the calculus and it certainly shouldn’t be only 150%.

Mid levels should be pushing low $200s and the entry level VFR towers that are levels 4-5-6 should be $150-175k, not a penny less.

Have you seen how much pilots make now and how much they work? Now do the techies that work from home (when not golfing midweek). Now do any other profession.