Natca wants oversight of new training?

[Phillytroll69]

NATCA Wants Oversight Of Controller Training Changes

The National Air Traffic Controllers Association says it wants to take part in the oversight of a new training process for some prospective controllers under changes announced last week by...

www.avweb.com

 

[ATC Zero]

NATCA Wants Oversight Of Controller Training Changes

The National Air Traffic Controllers Association says it wants to take part in the oversight of a new training process for some prospective controllers under changes announced last week by...

www.avweb.com

Lolz blame FAA for not doing enough hiring. Oh now they want their nose in more things. How about NATCA goes back to what a union supposed to do. They trying to do so much BS and lost sight of what they should be doing to improve working conditions and benefits.

 

[ATC123]

Lolz blame FAA for not doing enough hiring. Oh now they want their nose in more things. How about NATCA goes back to what a union supposed to do. They trying to do so much BS and lost sight of what they should be doing to improve working conditions and benefits.

One could argue that being involved in training can improve working conditions, no?

 

[ATC Zero]

One could argue that being involved in training can improve working conditions, no?

One could say that, can’t be worse than OTS trainees.
Improve working conditions now:
10hours between shifts
2x for all OT
If on YES list fine, if on NO list means NO! This job is getting to be worse then the military.
Think people gonna magically go roll the dice on paying for CTI school when they hear how bad things are currently as ATC

 

[Move78]

Lolz blame FAA for not doing enough hiring. Oh now they want their nose in more things. How about NATCA goes back to what a union supposed to do. They trying to do so much BS and lost sight of what they should be doing to improve working conditions and benefits.

The workforce doesn’t think the quality of new hires is good enough so the union is trying to help solve that problem. Pretty basic stuff here.

 

[ATC Zero]

The workforce doesn’t think the quality of new hires is good enough so the union is trying to help solve that problem. Pretty basic stuff here.

NATCA thinks they have the ability to improve the applicant pool or weed through them that will come through CTI? That’s down right hilarious. The military hires as of late are about as equally bad as the OTS. Like I said they should be working to improve conditions for current employees before trying to get involved in more shit and pull more controllers off the boards to oversee this.

 

[32andBelow]

The best part about all this is the FAA policies totally obliterated all the good CTI schools and they are a shell of what they were. Granted There was a problem with the scam CTI schools at the end tho

 

[Move78]

NATCA thinks they have the ability to improve the applicant pool or weed through them that will come through CTI? That’s down right hilarious. The military hires as of late are about as equally bad as the OTS. Like I said they should be working to improve conditions for current employees before trying to get involved in more shit and pull more controllers off the boards to oversee this.

Those are separate issues and not relevant to this post whatsoever. But if the agency is finally, after years of criticism, going to acknowledge that they’ve butchered staffing then it’s important that, in their attempt to play catch up, they don’t just flood beating hearts through the process. Cuz that’s what they’ll do. So they can say look you asked for more and we gave you more.

 

[ATC Zero]

Those are separate issues and not relevant to this post whatsoever. But if the agency is finally, after years of criticism, going to acknowledge that they’ve butchered staffing then it’s important that, in their attempt to play catch up, they don’t just flood beating hearts through the process. Cuz that’s what they’ll do. So they can say look you asked for more and we gave you more.

They did it in the 80’s and those were some of the best controllers that went out in the retirement wave. Flood the gates and let the facilities weed them out. The process will happen a hell of a lot quicker then with all the red tape that’s going to happen now.

 

[Move78]

They did it in the 80’s and those were some of the best controllers that went out in the retirement wave. Flood the gates and let the facilities weed them out. The process will happen a hell of a lot quicker then with all the red tape that’s going to happen now.

There’s going to be a flood. You could call NATCA national and tell them you don’t care about quality trainees but you’d be the first.

 

[Top5fatcat]

Can confirm the quality of trainees is absolute hot garbage. Anytime NATCA has a say is better than when it doesnt. They can walk and chew gum at the same time, RAZEWEN is obv most important thing

 

[DidYouDoYourNATPRO]

Can confirm the quality of trainees is absolute hot garbage. Anytime NATCA has a say is better than when it doesnt. They can walk and chew gum at the same time, RAZEWEN is obv most important thing

So wash them

 

[Phillytroll69]

The best part about all this is the FAA policies totally obliterated all the good CTI schools and they are a shell of what they were. Granted There was a problem with the scam CTI schools at the end tho

Well I'm gonna pass on doxxing myself but we had a lot of foreign pilots training at ours, and the school itself was clearly more set up for them. However, numerous tours and interning at a facility, and applying to whatever contractor and blah blah. I did all the work and all the cti with a small group of people. About 4/20 of us are currently controllers in the agency. We ALL got hired OTS. Not one of us that interned at the facility and then waited tables or anything was picked up on a cti bid. And 1/20 of us got to the facility we wanted via hardship.

I believe their were accusations of nepotism (like interns getting picked up at higher rates) and they had to black out all of the names but then just let the applications expire. Then there is another lawsuit the next year. Then this then that.

Anyhow all those people (well almost) that graduated before the faa nuked cti have aged out. There's a whole lawsuit I've been following since 2012 (I was hired in 08) for those specific ctis, that is still going on

The best part about all this is the FAA policies totally obliterated all the good CTI schools and they are a shell of what they were. Granted There was a problem with the scam CTI schools at the end tho

I wanted to address your another point about the scam cti schools.

I'm in favor of a VERY LOW BAR 2 (or 1 year minor)

No idiot is going to get a 4 year cti degree after the faa nuked it last time.

All cti get the basics material, private pilot ground school, tower tabletops.

You can apply to an open, rolling bid once you are enrolled in a program and upon completion you report to a level 5/6 tower (around a tower with a sim)

We give no geo prefrence BUT cti is THE ticket into the agency. To make up for this CTI grads may transfer +2 same facility, or +3 (up/down, center, tracon) after X years.

Take the reinstatement of the CTI bid and use it to fix staffing! In turn this fixes NCEPT, and in turn gets people back home after 8 years.

Think about the quality of applicant now -

I have nothing better offered to me, might as well try this
Vs
I love aviation and am willing to do my time knowing theres a track for more money and a geo location I like

how's the sting when that hardship paperwork starts day 1?

You could also set up tiered cti programs or specialized for tower, rtf, enroute but I fear diversity gets impacted with socio economic factors.

 

[32andBelow]

I wanted to address your another point about the scam cti schools.

I'm in favor of a VERY LOW BAR 2 (or 1 year minor)

No idiot is going to get a 4 year cti degree after the faa nuked it last time.

All cti get the basics material, private pilot ground school, tower tabletops.

You can apply to an open, rolling bid once you are enrolled in a program and upon completion you report to a level 5/6 tower (around a tower with a sim)

We give no geo prefrence BUT cti is THE ticket into the agency. To make up for this CTI grads may transfer +2 same facility, or +3 (up/down, center, tracon) after X years.

Take the reinstatement of the CTI bid and use it to fix staffing! In turn this fixes NCEPT, and in turn gets people back home after 8 years.

Think about the quality of applicant now -

I have nothing better offered to me, might as well try this
Vs
I love aviation and am willing to do my time knowing theres a track for more money and a geo location I like

how's the sting when that hardship paperwork starts day 1?

You could also set up tiered cti programs or specialized for tower, rtf, enroute but I fear diversity gets impacted with socio economic factors.

There were good 2 year CTI programs That had sims better than te ones at the academy. I’m talking about the ones that were like online power points that you could do in a couple months.

 

[Termine]

upon completion you report to a level 5/6 tower

Once again the ugly stepchild Level 4 facilities get forgotten about. With every 804 their ranks increase.

 

[Phillytroll69]

Once again the ugly stepchild Level 4 facilities get forgotten about. With every 804 their ranks increase.

In truth I thought they were all contracted out so you weren't lying but yes include those also

There were good 2 year CTI programs That had sims better than te ones at the academy. I’m talking about the ones that were like online power points that you could do in a couple months.

Yeah you'd have to tier them out. But it seems a little bit unfair that someone would put 10s of thousands of dollars of student loans to get the best education possible and come into their residency well prepared and ready to work in a field they've significantly studied for when I worked for 4 years (summer only) at a taco place. I progressed from dishes, to phones, to making tacos, and now sometimes manage the ENTIRE shift.

It's a joke they got rid of cti, but realistically these examples have about the same success rate.

Sarcasm aside yes the 'online' powerpoints of the Dakotas and Minnesota are not the same as embry riddle or the cto at beaver/asu. BUT as every dollar cost of college goes up, diversity goes down. (Huge url at bottom)

I really do think we can give anyone a shot by partnering with two year community colleges to offer an online program (pilot ground school, basics, etc) and in person table tops.

Maybe a cti bid for enroute/rtf at the academy now that tower cti grads can report to facility.

This is a huge win for everyone if we collaborate and a huge opportunity for those interested in aviation. This will let us change more important things like the word cockpit.

(Diversity in Higher Education: Facts and Statistics | BestColleges.)

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Sarcasm aside yes the 'online' powerpoints of the Dakotas and Minnesota are not the same as embry riddle or the cto at beaver/asu.

What are you even talking about? UND has two tower sims and a radar sim. One of the tower sims is connected so that ground, local, radar, and center all work the same problem. You screw something up it impacts the student the next sector over.

 

[Phillytroll69]

What are you even talking about? UND has two tower sims and a radar sim. One of the tower sims is connected so that ground, local, radar, and center all work the same problem. You screw something up it impacts the student the next sector over.

Not und the community college

 

[SNHU]

Just throwing it out there for validity on the effectiveness of the CTI program: my DWC/SNHU had 10 students. I believe only about 5 applied to the agency and 4 of those 5 are currently at a facility: D10, ZBW, ZLA, and ACK.

I agree with the above that a curriculum needs to be set by the FAA to ensure each CTI school is providing the same training. My school had the exact same tower simulator as the Academy and all the information taught in Basics was word for word what was taught in college.

 

[Phillytroll69]

Just throwing it out there for validity on the effectiveness of the CTI program: my DWC/SNHU had 10 students. I believe only about 5 applied to the agency and 4 of those 5 are currently at a facility: D10, ZBW, ZLA, and ACK.

I agree with the above that a curriculum needs to be set by the FAA to ensure each CTI school is providing the same training. My school had the exact same tower simulator as the Academy and all the information taught in Basics was word for word what was taught in college.

Yeah BUT can you name me one other career where you go to school for a specific thing and then get hired directly by a company. You are making it seem like this happens all the time without some sort of academy