The Bravo multiplier is complete BS, tell me why having a class B equates to 25% more complexity than dodging VFRS in unprotected class C airspace. AUS doesn’t get 15% multiplier for having a crossing runway. BNA and DAB never use their crossing runway like most facilities excluding a tiny few. Why do they get 15% more TCI? Appendix A is flawed. AUS is the only up/down level 9,10,11,12 who doesn’t have a crossing runway or class B airspace. That’s %15-%40 percent less multiplier than the rest.
Facility Downgrades / Upgrades
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GulfBravoPapa
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Did I miss BNA getting a Bravo?
BNA has the extended class C and they have 4 runways, 1 that crosses that rarely gets used. AUS works more traffic but blows thru management every 6 months and doesn’t get shit done. AUS has 2 parallels with more traffic but is 15% “less complex” than BNA because there’s no crossing runway.
Soul_Controller
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The one facility type that shouldn't even be remotely complaining about TCI are updowns. A 9 updown is usually slower in the tower than a 9 tower only and slower on radar than a 9 tracon.
Disagree, look at MSY who has Class B and a crossing runway compared to AUS class C no crossing runway. AUS does over double the ops of MSY yet both level 9’s. TCI is fucked.
SquawkHijack
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AUS is pushing tin, I still talk to a guy from my facility that just started as a support specialist there and says it’s been bumpin!
Ramp control additions have to do with the amount of gates per single constructed terminal. For example, if you have two separate terminals at an airport with 25 gates per, you don’t get ramp control, if that same airport builds a single terminal with 30+ gates (doesn’t have to be the only terminal there) then ramp control is required. Like all things with the FAA, it boils down to numbers…
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That is not true unless my facility is grandfathered in.
SquawkHijack
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You are grandfathered in unless any new construction is built, this is only applicable to airport terminals built after a certain date which I don’t exactly know.
Soul_Controller
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Those are both updowns. My point is that you get to be slower in the tower than a tower only like DCA and slower in the tracon than a stand alone tracon like Memphis. But you all get the same facility level. Plus TCI exists because volume is just part of it. I'd rather work AUS than SAT whether or not there is more planes at AUS.
boots
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I don’t think you understand how much it takes to get to a level 10 with a Charlie.
Soul_Controller
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My point is that you don't really deserve to even be nines if you want to make it all about pushing tin. Split AUS and you don't get two nines
boots
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Soul_Controller
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So the radar MIGHT be a nine (it's no where near a 10). The tower definitely isn't a nine.
There are issues with TCI. Capping at 12 is bullshit on the high end. And vfr towers get penalized too much at the low end. But if every updown split, a lot of yall would be making a lot less money.
There are issues with TCI. Capping at 12 is bullshit on the high end. And vfr towers get penalized too much at the low end. But if every updown split, a lot of yall would be making a lot less money.
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They added on to one of our terminals in 2020/2021. Total of 9 gates for terminal 1 and 50 gates for terminal 2. It's moot because ramp control would never work at our airport anyway but I had never heard of the rule you claimed before.
TCI is very messed up. AUS should definitely be a 10.
I did a brief sampling of many 8/9/10 up downs and most had at least one part of the facility that standalone, would be enough to be the same traffic count level. If you're asking a controller to be certified in two different types of facilities they deserve some type of extra pay.
Instead take a look at JAX next time you have access to the TCIP site. They are a lvl 9 and their tracon is very busy but they have a relatively slow tower. They would actually be %wise closer to a lvl 10 if they were tracon only. Like the current TCI formula actually punishes them for having a tower.
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For you facilities that have upgraded, was management on the case to get the raise? Or was it worked on from outside the facility? We are trending towards level 8 and should be above the 8 line in a few months, but our ATM is almost retired and has zero interest in lifting a finger to even start the process.. He won’t even make a phone call to figure out what needs to be done.
SquawkHijack
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It’s definitely a thing but I’m wondering if you guys maybe got a waiver or deviation since it wouldn’t be beneficial to airport ops as you say.
FAA: The 804s will continue until morale improves.
Speaking of facility levels, I saw Rich speak recently and one thing he mentioned was that he thinks there are too many levels, which I'm kind of on board with. Though I wonder if the stakes would be even higher if you consolidated from nine different levels down to four or five... you'd still be having these same arguments on the edges. The solution to that would be to make the pay difference pretty minimal between one level and the next, but if you did that you'd have the high-level controllers complaining about how hard they work compared to places like APC/DAY/POU for "only" so much more per year.
Basically controllers are our own worst enemies.
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