Facility Downgrades / Upgrades

[lamelo3]

Same reason CLE didn’t. Same reason AZO only went to an 8 when everyone was told it would be a 9.

Outdated TCIP formula. You lose so many multipliers when you combine approaches into one building.

Gotcha. Wonder if that’s going to change. Seems kinda crazy how they added almost 20 more spots for staff numbers or justified it, but it’s still a “8”.

 

[But_I_Had_Visual]

Gotcha. Wonder if that’s going to change. Seems kinda crazy how they added almost 20 more spots for staff numbers or justified it, but it’s still a “8”.

CMH is the epitome of consolidation gone wrong. Gained a whole other approach with no increase in staffing (until now). I’m sure it’s super fun working 8 towered airports (i think, might be more) and having a crapload of small satellite airports that all have some sort of instrument approach. But thanks to the TCIP, the only airport that truly matters in their count is CMH. Main bang or it ain’t no thang boys!

 

[Wally21]

FTW going from a 6 to a 7

 

[S.T.O.P.]

Is anyone talking about MYF going to a 10? They close at 9pm. Shoot, only 10 that closes at night potentially

 

[But_I_Had_Visual]

Is anyone talking about MYF going to a 10? They close at 9pm. Shoot, only 10 that closes at night potentially

Damn that’d be one hell of a flex. Good for them

 

[CF]

Is anyone talking about MYF going to a 10? They close at 9pm. Shoot, only 10 that closes at night potentially

good for them since they get money but there are multiple vfr towers that are busier and more complex that won’t ever sniff level 10 since they don’t have the bravo multiplier. It’s kinda bullshit lol.

 

[Unable is a full sentence]

Is anyone talking about MYF going to a 10? They close at 9pm. Shoot, only 10 that closes at night potentially

F yeah bro!

 

[nab]

JFK has been below the buffer for 6 months and LGA for 9 months. Are they at risk of downgrade or are they attached to EWR since they are also a level 11?

 

[Soul_Controller]

JFK has been below the buffer for 6 months and LGA for 9 months. Are they at risk of downgrade or are they attached to EWR since they are also a level 11?

JFK has been below the buffer for a lot longer than 6 months, ha

 

[Termine]

Are they at risk of downgrade or are they attached to EWR since they are also a level 11?

Seems like this comes up about once every year. Copy-pasting my 2023 comment which was a copy-paste of my 2022 comment. There's a little more discussion around those times.

Metropolitan Tower Complex – Two (2) or more airport traffic control terminals that provide traffic advisories, spacing, sequencing, and separation services to VFR and IFR aircraft operating in Class B airspace within the vicinity of the airport using a combination of radar and direct observations. These airport traffic control terminals must serve separate Large Hub Airports located in a major metropolitan area and independently be within one (1) facility pay level of each other. Additionally, each airport must be located within fifteen (15) nautical miles (center of airport to center of airport), and have traffic flows that have to be closely coordinated between facilities such that the operational configuration of one (1) airport affects the operational configuration of the other(s).

Traffic Count Index (TCI) – A combined measure of the complexity of the air traffic and the sustained traffic index at each facility. It is the measure used to set facility pay levels. For a Metropolitan Tower Complex, the Traffic Count Index for each airport traffic control terminal facility is calculated independently, and the pay level of the Complex is set based on the highest independently calculated TCI.

JFK is is nine miles from LGA, and LGA is fourteen miles from EWR. However JFK is eighteen miles from EWR. Additionally I know that LGA/JFK runway selection are heavily dependent on each other but I don't know if EWR is affected as much. I would assume yes, though.

So provided JFK and LGA are independently calculated to be within one FPL of each other, each facility's FPL is set to the higher one. Most likely this is true for EWR and LGA as well. For example, this could be true:

• EWR TCI is 10.
• LGA TCI is 11.
• JFK TCI is 10.
• Because EWR is a "metro tower complex" with LGA, and because EWR is within one level of LGA, EWR is set to an 11.
• Because JFK is a "metro tower complex" with LGA, and because JFK is within one level of LGA, JFK is set to an 11.

Now in the (made-up example) case where EWR is 11, LGA is 10, and JFK is 9, it shouldn't be true that JFK would commutatively be set to match EWR's 11, because EWR and JFK are too far apart to be considered part of the same metro tower complex. Instead JFK should be set to match LGA's independently calculated 10, while LGA would be set to 11 to match EWR. But I would not at all be surprised to hear that they just lump all three together and call it a day.

It does kind of make you wonder why they didn't make the distance requirement 20NM instead of 15NM, though, right? I mean, they had surveying tools and distance calculators back when they negotiated the complexity formula.

 

[Wizard]

JFK has been below the buffer for 6 months and LGA for 9 months. Are they at risk of downgrade or are they attached to EWR since they are also a level 11?

You should try 10+ years

There’s no way MYF is actually close to a 10 is there? I haven’t looked.

 

[Homsar]

There’s no way MYF is actually close to a 10 is there? I haven’t looked.

I haven’t looked at the above buffer facilities in a bit, but I don’t recall seeing MYF there. I call shenanigans.

 

[nab]

There’s no way MYF is actually close to a 10 is there? I haven’t looked.

MYF is 1 point away from a 10 and will have it after this month. SAN is a level 8. Big difference in pay there.

 

[Wizard]

MYF is 1 point away from a 10 and will have it after this month. SAN is a level 8. Big difference in pay there.

To go from a 7-10 in 4 years and likely 0 change in staffing is wild. Something weird there.

 

[CF]

To go from a 7-10 in 4 years and likely 0 change in staffing is wild. Something weird there.

When did they get miramars bravo? That with a steady increase in traffic could do it.

 

[Wizard]

When did they get miramars bravo? That with a steady increase in traffic could do it.

Really just goes to show how big the traffic count scam is. Not any of the people at the facilities fault. But mainly a vfr tower getting class bravo count is hilarious.

 

[Termine]

When did they get miramars bravo?

Are people saying they literally are a Bravo or that they're getting the Bravo multiplier somehow? I'm looking at the TAC and it's showing that they're a Class D surface area up to 2900, and the Bravo doesn't start above them until 4800. Although their surface area does touch both the NKX and SAN surface areas.

 

[CF]

Are people saying they literally are a Bravo or that they're getting the Bravo multiplier somehow? I'm looking at the TAC and it's showing that they're a Class D surface area up to 2900, and the Bravo doesn't start above them until 4800. Although their surface area does touch both the NKX and SAN surface areas.

So when Miramar closes they take over the bravo surface area and I think they get the multiplier like they have it all the time.

 

[flying_dutchman]

TMB upgraded from 7 to 8

 

[nab]

Class B,C,D multipliers need eliminated and reduce TCI levels by 25%. Your airspace level has zero affect on complexity. I have no idea how this was agreed upon in appendix A as a complexity factor.