NATCA asleep at the wheel again….

[The River]

An interesting read that I think is relevant to this topic. Not only does it appear that there are multiple unions representing ATC's in Europe, and they're also legally allowed to strike, a very different environment. It's unfortunate that they seem to suffer the same staffing issues we have.
European airlines go ballistic over French air traffic controller strike
Anyone here plugged into civil aviation across the pond? Besides the publicly available articles, how is the European aviation industry reacting to this? How are the airlines responding? Any talk from the national governments or ATC unions? Does anyone know what Brussels' plan might be? Just curious.

 

[Nothanks]

An interesting read that I think is relevant to this topic. Not only does it appear that there are multiple unions representing ATC's in Europe, and they're also legally allowed to strike, a very different environment. It's unfortunate that they seem to suffer the same staffing issues we have.
European airlines go ballistic over French air traffic controller strike
Anyone here plugged into civil aviation across the pond? Besides the publicly available articles, how is the European aviation industry reacting to this? How are the airlines responding? Any talk from the national governments or ATC unions? Does anyone know what Brussels' plan might be? Just curious.

They have to now fingerprint in and out of work. 🤣

 

[32andBelow]

An interesting read that I think is relevant to this topic. Not only does it appear that there are multiple unions representing ATC's in Europe, and they're also legally allowed to strike, a very different environment. It's unfortunate that they seem to suffer the same staffing issues we have.
European airlines go ballistic over French air traffic controller strike
Anyone here plugged into civil aviation across the pond? Besides the publicly available articles, how is the European aviation industry reacting to this? How are the airlines responding? Any talk from the national governments or ATC unions? Does anyone know what Brussels' plan might be? Just curious.

They go on strike all the time

 

[Nothanks]

I’d be mad too if I had to pay 45% income tax

 

[Spoony90]

I’d be mad too if I had to pay 45% income tax

You think you’re not paying that now? Add up all the sales tax, property tax, car registration. You can’t move a dollar without it being taxed

 

[SquawkHijack]

I'll bid whichever one has a low cost of living at this point. ERRs won't happen but them juicy sup bids

Even that is doubtful at this point. They aren’t approving any staffing deviations unless a district GM really wants a particular individual that made top 5 in the ranking. And even then, the deviation has to be approved up at the ATO level. As someone who’s tried going the sup route numerous times to get me and my family home, that shit ain’t happening these days.

 

[Flashy Vectors]

I’d be mad too if I had to pay 45% income tax

Taxed when you earn it
Taxed when it’s put into traditional tsp
Taxed when you spend it on housing, food, anything recreational.
Taxed when you invest it
Taxed when you save it

Our founding fathers are rolling in their graves at how much were taxed while still having a national debt that’s 36 trillion dollars. If the U.S. had a balanced budget and paid back 1 billion of its debt every month it would take 3,000 years to pay it off with 0% interest.

 

[SquawkHijack]

Where would they consolidate these centers to? With ZABs recent evacuation you’d think they’d learn…

Let’s not forget when ol’ boy in tech ops willfully tried to burn down ZAU… From an operational resiliency and security standpoint, any ARTCC consolidation is a really fucking dumb idea.

Imagine if 10 FBI field offices were planned to be consolidated, they would never go for that! Anything that is a service delivery point (like ATC facilities) should be geographically placed with security and service coverage in mind.

 

[Phillytroll69]

Even that is doubtful at this point. They aren’t approving any staffing deviations unless a district GM really wants a particular individual that made top 5 in the ranking. And even then, the deviation has to be approved up at the ATO level. As someone who’s tried going the sup route numerous times to get me and my family home, that shit ain’t happening these days.

What about the can't hold you more than a year thing

 

[Nothanks]

Taxed when you earn it
Taxed when it’s put into traditional tsp
Taxed when you spend it on housing, food, anything recreational.
Taxed when you invest it
Taxed when you save it

Our founding fathers are rolling in their graves at how much were taxed while still having a national debt that’s 36 trillion dollars. If the U.S. had a balanced budget and paid back 1 billion of its debt every month it would take 3,000 years to pay it off with 0% interest.

When you earn it - or income tax(higher in France)
When you invest it - higher in France
When you spend it - sales tax USA, VAT France which is way higher, 20% on goods and services
The rest is the same or more (30% capital gains in France)

I don’t really know what you are getting at? Taxes are much higher in France. Why do you think people are constantly protesting over there ? Socialism type policies there and people hate it. If you like it, you should go there.

You think you’re not paying that now? Add up all the sales tax, property tax, car registration. You can’t move a dollar without it being taxed

France charges a yearly tariff on how much co2 you car emits. You pay all that in France too that you quoted and at much higher rates. Do you just say things to argue or are you based in facts ? 🤦‍♂️

 

[SquawkHijack]

What about the can't hold you more than a year thing

I believe that’s for the event you are picked up for something, they cannot hold you longer than a year for your release date. I’m not sure what else that would really apply to, if that’s what you were talking about lol.

 

[jdatc]

Do you just say things to argue….

You’re so close to an epiphany!

 

[Bandit117]

Let’s not forget when ol’ boy in tech ops willfully tried to burn down ZAU… From an operational resiliency and security standpoint, any ARTCC consolidation is a really fucking dumb idea.

Imagine if 10 FBI field offices were planned to be consolidated, they would never go for that! Anything that is a service delivery point (like ATC facilities) should be geographically placed with security and service coverage in mind.

It’s a budgetary issue that’s caused by the negligence and cowardice and incompetence of the previous ATO leadership. For about the last 25-30 years they SHOULD have been asking Congress for money to replace one center every 5 years or so. Spread out the cost. They did not do that. They did not want to suggest that eveything wasn’t hunky dory by asking for more money, even though they need damn well these buildings were at or past their lifecycle timeline.

It’s like taking care of your house. You can do the roof one year. Maybe the next you paint it. Maybe new carpet a couple years later. Incremental improvements. But if you ignore it all, suddenly you need new windows, a furnace, a floor, new siding, new plumbing and electrical all at once, and that’s a bill that no one can afford to pay in one lump sum.

The faa leadership (or lack thereof) did this. They papered over the problems and covered up the fact that the equipment and facilities are rapidly aging and they had no plan to fix it. Now the bill for everything is due at once and they can’t pay it, so they are downsizing.

 

[ManBearPig]

It’s a budgetary issue that’s caused by the negligence and cowardice and incompetence of the previous ATO leadership. For about the last 25-30 years they SHOULD have been asking Congress for money to replace one center every 5 years or so. Spread out the cost. They did not do that. They did not want to suggest that eveything wasn’t hunky dory by asking for more money, even though they need damn well these buildings were at or past their lifecycle timeline.

It’s like taking care of your house. You can do the roof one year. Maybe the next you paint it. Maybe new carpet a couple years later. Incremental improvements. But if you ignore it all, suddenly you need new windows, a furnace, a floor, new siding, new plumbing and electrical all at once, and that’s a bill that no one can afford to pay in one lump sum.

The faa leadership (or lack thereof) did this. They papered over the problems and covered up the fact that the equipment and facilities are rapidly aging and they had no plan to fix it. Now the bill for everything is due at once and they can’t pay it, so they are downsizing.

Freaking nailed it.

 

[32andBelow]

Why do we even need to replace the centers? We just need to maintain them. The centers that got remodels already are perfectly fine for many more decades.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Why do we even need to replace the centers? We just need to maintain them. The centers that got remodels already are perfectly fine for many more decades.

And there are some that are crumbling, sinking, and flooding....

 

[Nothanks]

Why do we even need to replace the centers? We just need to maintain them. The centers that got remodels already are perfectly fine for many more decades.

Which ones are perfectly fine ?

 

[Bandit117]

Why do we even need to replace the centers? We just need to maintain them. The centers that got remodels already are perfectly fine for many more decades.

Asbestos, cracking and leaky foundations, inadequate power supplies that are Jerry-rigged to make it work, dated and inefficient facility layouts built for legacy technology, inadequate office space for staff. HVAC systems that don’t keep up.

They could fix all those things. But it will probably be cheaper to build new. You’re getting into the Great Lakes tracon problem. It was cheaper to build one super shiny new mega tracon in AZO and consolidate than it was to modernize and update LAN, AZO, GRR, MKG, MBS, and FNT by themselves. Just like it will be cheaper to build one Z on the west coast than it would be to update, modernize and repair ZOA, ZLA and ZSE. Build one in the Rockies and consolidate ZBQ, ZLC, ZDV, another in the Midwest to consolidate ZFW, ZKC, ZMP and ZAU, and maybe one out east to take ZOB, ZID, ZNY and ZBW, and one or two in the south to take ZMA, ZJX, ZME, ZTL, ZDC, ZHU, and whatever Puerto Rico is called.

ZAN, ZUA and HCF I assume would stay separate, just due to Geography and being OCONUS.

 

[pedaNTIc]

So when a fire alarm goes off and all of the west coast’s airspace goes Zero because 3 Z’s got consolidated into a Wal-Mart SuperCenter+ Pro Max, what then?

One Z going down, yeah the neighboring Center can shift it like ZAB and ZDE did last week.

But when you combine all that stuff, that’s a lot of work over one fire alarm in one megabuilding.

It gets even dumber if you have the regional TRACONs and remote towers in there too.

 

[Phillytroll69]

So when a fire alarm goes off and all of the west coast’s airspace goes Zero because 3 Z’s got consolidated into a Wal-Mart SuperCenter+ Pro Max, what then?

One Z going down, yeah the neighboring Center can shift it like ZAB and ZDE did last week.

But when you combine all that stuff, that’s a lot of work over one fire alarm in one megabuilding.

It gets even dumber if you have the regional TRACONs and remote towers in there too.

TESLA Center is assuming Wal-Mart supercenter+ airspace expect delays. Update 1900z. This message sponsored by AutoZone, get in the zone.