Shoot The Breeze

[32andBelow]

what’s your reason for thinking this ? Seems to me the FAA is wanting to get things going and natca is pushing “safety of CPCs.” Note: I’m not saying don’t keep CPCs safe, only that it’s the impression I get.

Since the academy is open this is 100% the case.

 

[aaran34]

We’re (ZDV) going back to 5/2 on the 19th. Since the schedule was originally created to keep as many people out of the building, I’d highly suggest putting pressure on local NATCA, management, etc on a timetable to bring trainees back. Just saying.

How long did it take you to certify?

How long is it taking now?

How long should you be seen and not heard?

I mean washing your trainers car and doing the food runs and dealing with some shit talking for 6mo to a year isn't a big deal.
When are the most recent hires starting on the floor at your facility? What are the rumors at n90 from that other post? shit even our tower trainees have to weeks or months to drive to the place with the sim, then spend a ton of time waiting for traffic. Without the shutdown, without the pandemic, there's more hoops to jump through.
To the boomers just answer the questions above, how long for you to checkout and what's that average time before covid?

It took me less than 2 years from the start of OKC to certify. It generally took 2-2.5 years to certify at my last facility. There was a great training environment there.

In my current facility it has been taking at least 3 years pre Covid. It’s the culture that’s different. There isn’t a big priority to have a smooth training process here. Probably why most of you are so upset.

Seen and not heard? As long as it takes. You can be heard the right way or the wrong. I take it most of will never understand this.

 

[CaptainObvious]

We’re (ZDV) going back to 5/2 on the 19th. Since the schedule was originally created to keep as many people out of the building, I’d highly suggest putting pressure on local NATCA, management, etc on a timetable to bring trainees back. Just saying.

Two positives and ATC-Zero, seems like going BWS is definitely the wisest move

 

[mnsalty]

To be fair, a lot of trainees right now have done “the right things”. In the books, wait their turn, show they want to train. Its like CPCs want all that, but then complain about them clamoring time train. Can’t be both ways. I work with plenty of people that are complaining about their lack of this differential or not having their bid schedule. Don’t you think that’s annoying for trainees to hear all the time? Especially the essential ones that are forced to work the same areas and traffic as the CPCs but being paid far less and with no relief on it in sight. It’s extremely frustrating for them to get no info other than a one sentence blurb in national or regional emails. All the defenders come out with “well what do you want them to say, no updates?” Guess what, National is updating everyone on literally every other aspect of their response to the situation. Keeping people in the loop would settle a lot of discord. Like the stuff that Stinger posted from the telecon. Obviously there’s been some discussions and recommendations from the workgroup. All the people complaining are asking for is the union that they pay the same percentage as the CPCs provide them with some of this info. A simple “the workgroup met and had these recommendations, we’re examining how to implement these, we’ll provide updates as they come in because we understand this an unprecedented and stressful time, and NATCA is here to help you get back to training safely and effectively” would be a welcome outreach to the trainees. Some of the stuff floated out here in regards to keeping CPCs on their schedules and furloughs, and all the shit about trainees just being a bargaining chip starts to seem more and more valid. It seems that NATCA couldn’t give a shit about a large portion of their dues paying members, so excuse them for being upset and voicing it.

I agree completely. Unfortunately saying things like “NATCA is here to to help you get back to training.” That’s just not the case. I get that’s what they should be saying - but they’d be pissing off 75% of the BUEs.

It took me less than 2 years from the start of OKC to certify. It generally took 2-2.5 years to certify at my last facility. There was a great training environment there.

In my current facility it has been taking at least 3 years pre Covid. It’s the culture that’s different. There isn’t a big priority to have a smooth training process here. Probably why most of you are so upset.

Seen and not heard? As long as it takes. You can be heard the right way or the wrong. I take it most of will never understand this.

things clearly worked out well for you and that’s great. But you obviously caught some lucky breaks along the way. Nobody at home right now did anything to “deserve” the delays. And just because people In the past had them doesn’t mean everyone else should “accept them.”
Re: your “seen and not heard” crap - stop treating people who are trainees like they’re less of a person. Where the god complex comes from of some CPCs I’ll never understand. Trainees are people too. Nobody should be waltzing in acting like a prick, but ultimately either someone can work the traffic and do the job or they can’t.

 

[CaptainObvious]

things clearly worked out well for you and that’s great. But you obviously caught some lucky breaks along the way. Nobody at home right now did anything to “deserve” the delays. And just because people In the past had them doesn’t mean everyone else should “accept them.”
Re: your “seen and not heard” crap - stop treating people who are trainees like they’re less of a person. Where the god complex comes from of some CPCs I’ll never understand. Trainees are people too. Nobody should be waltzing in acting like a prick, but ultimately either someone can work the traffic and do the job or they can’t.

I find the problem with this attitude is, once I’m certified I’m going to treat you like shit right back. Same for trainers who berate and belittle. When that trainee makes it, don’t feel so surprised that they’re an asshole to you

 

[Robert_Boucher]

For those looking to accomplish something today here the contact info for the NEB. Start sending those emails to get some info on training.

NATCA Leadership

NATCA Leadership National Executive Board Rich Santa President Read More Andrew LeBovidge Executive Vice President Read More Clint Lancaster Alaskan Regional Vice President (NAL) Read More Aaron Merrick Central Regional Vice President (NCE) Read More Brian […]

www.natca.org

It does suck to have training disrupted this long, but be proactive and reach out to people. It's your career do what you need to do to make sure you are taken care of, instead of complaining on the internet.

 

[CF]

Probably because they suck. For real though, as much as it’s trendy to bag on and blame millennials, Gen X seems way worse on the lazy, do nothing, live at home forever, burnout front

Might be true but I think they’re also the most inconsequential since it’s overall a smaller generation than boomers and millennials. Gen X is the middle child of generations.

 

[DankVectorz]

*tear drops onto page of diary* 7/9/20 Well, I guess today is the day I learn Dank will never train me

I do train for beer

 

[DankVectorz]

I agree completely. Unfortunately saying things like “NATCA is here to to help you get back to training.” That’s just not the case. I get that’s what they should be saying - but they’d be pissing off 75% of the BUEs.

probsbly because “NATCA is here to help prevent you from getting COVID by not having a ton of people in a confined space working inches from each other during a pandemic” sounds better. Ymmv.

 

[mnsalty]

probsbly because “NATCA is here to help prevent you from getting COVID by not having a ton of people in a confined space working inches from each other during a pandemic” sounds better. Ymmv.

noted.
How many trainees at n90 were still months away from being on the floor and will have to start over when they never would’ve been in that confined space anyways? Just curious.

on a serious note - do you ever expect the n90 backlog of trainees to clear up?

 

[32andBelow]

probsbly because “NATCA is here to help prevent you from getting COVID by not having a ton of people in a confined space working inches from each other during a pandemic” sounds better. Ymmv.

Except when they are about to lose 5 and 5 and they frantically call back qualified trainees to keep the dream alive

 

[CF]

Except when they are about to lose 5 and 5 and they frantically call back qualified trainees to keep the dream alive

 

[CaptainObvious]

Except when they are about to lose 5 and 5 and they frantically call back qualified trainees to keep the dream alive

Or you know, all the facilities that are going or stayed on BWS. That fact too

 

[32andBelow]

Or you know, all the facilities that are going or stayed on BWS. That fact too

It’s just funny that I can sit 3 feet to the right of someone but they can’t sit 3 feet behind me.

 

[DankVectorz]

noted.
How many trainees at n90 were still months away from being on the floor and will have to start over when they never would’ve been in that confined space anyways? Just curious.

on a serious note - do you ever expect the n90 backlog of trainees to clear up?

soooo they would have been in a confined classroom instead? I’m not sure where you’re going with that one.

yes. Until a few months before Covid trainees were restricted by the faa’s forced training plan on how many and what positions they were allowed to train on and never with a combined position that wasn’t in their training plan. It greatly hamstringed training because often we couldn’t split off positions. That’s done away with which should greatly increase the pace of training, at least through D2/D3. The last couple positions will probably get backlogged again and one of them is possible the most difficult single radar position in the NAS so that one will take a while.

 

[32andBelow]

soooo they would have been in a confined classroom instead? I’m not sure where you’re going with that one.

yes. Until a few months before Covid trainees were restricted by the faa’s forced training plan on how many and what positions they were allowed to train on and never with a combined position that wasn’t in their training plan. It greatly hamstringed training because often we couldn’t split off positions. That’s done away with which should greatly increase the pace of training, at least through D2/D3. The last couple positions will probably get backlogged again and one of them is possible the most difficult single radar position in the NAS so that one will take a while.

Are your classrooms small? Ours are huge and social distancing would be every easy to maintain.

 

[spider]

Except when they are about to lose 5 and 5 and they frantically call back qualified trainees to keep the dream alive

Calling qualified trainees back when they are needed vs. having them just sit there since the beginning? You had 120 days off but you’re acting like 5/5 is the dream?

We can go 5/2 tomorrow and that still won’t make me say training is a great idea.

 

[32andBelow]

Calling qualified trainees back when they are needed vs. having them just sit there since the beginning? You had 120 days off but you’re acting like 5/5 is the dream?

We can go 5/2 tomorrow and that still won’t make me say training is a great idea.

Just pointing out this is about keeping 5/5 that’s the goal. Would it not be more socially distanced to have more radar controllers and split sectors instead of work in a radar team.

 

[mnsalty]

soooo they would have been in a confined classroom instead? I’m not sure where you’re going with that one.

yes. Until a few months before Covid trainees were restricted by the faa’s forced training plan on how many and what positions they were allowed to train on and never with a combined position that wasn’t in their training plan. It greatly hamstringed training because often we couldn’t split off positions. That’s done away with which should greatly increase the pace of training, at least through D2/D3. The last couple positions will probably get backlogged again and one of them is possible the most difficult single radar position in the NAS so that one will take a while.

because being in a classroom (there are ways to do it, alternate days, bring in a couple at a time, etc. ) doesn’t risk CPCs getting infected by dirty trainees.

 

[spider]

Just pointing out this is about keeping 5/5 that’s the goal. Would it not be more socially distanced to have more radar controllers and split sectors instead of work in a radar team.

I am absolutely in favor splitting a sector vs. a team.