Training hold

[GulfCharlie]

What do you think a liberal arts degree is, and why is it worse than a “normal” degree?

Not to detract, but he was not comparing a "normal" degree, only Liberal Arts degrees to life experience. To learn these in a theoretical capacity versus applying real world knowledge or experience is something that cannot be beaten. For instance: You can read or watch every video on guns there is but until you put a magazine into the magazine well and slide the bolt back, then pull the trigger while smelling the powder or feeling the recoil, everything else is meaningless.

*Edits for grammatical errors*

 

[Merle]

Not to detract, but he was not comparing a "normal" degree, only Liberal Arts degrees to life experience. To learn these in a theoretical capacity versus applying real world knowledge or experience is something that cannot be beaten. For instance: You can read or watch every video on guns there is but until you put a magazine into the magazine well and slide the bolt back, then pull the trigger and smell the powder or feel the recoil everything else is meaningless to a degree.

Yeah, I would never say experience is worth less than any degree. People just like to pull out the phrase “liberal arts degree” because it has “liberal” and “arts” in it, when there’s no connection to the education or even the subject being studied

 

[ATCJoe85]

Not a day went by that we did not find a gun in either a carry on or one that was NOT checked into the cargo hold

I'm just a few years too young to remember, but didn't airport security usually handle these things before? Simple rules: no guns in your carry on, no bombs at all. That's all we need.

We don't need to be tossing water bottles at the security line and disassembling our outfit before body scanning in a yoga pose.

I've said it before, but for the 99th time, the events of 9/11 are not recreatable. It was a one-off that took advantage of passengers who reasonably figured the hijackers would be landing and having a multi-day standoff at the airport with police. There was no necessary change in the airport security process, because from that day forward no conscious group of people would sit idly by and let hijackers take control of their aircraft. But somehow everybody got caught up in "boxcutters" and how those little instruments single handedly killed 3000 people. Oh, if only they hadn't had those box cutters.

 

[PushingTin]

Yeah, I would never say experience is worth less than any degree. People just like to pull out the phrase “liberal arts degree” because it has “liberal” and “arts” in it, when there’s no connection to the education or even the subject being studied

Merle, I come in peace. I speak in hyperbole and like to use provocative buzzwords, but I can assure you i am not the enemy!

 

[Merle]

Merle, I come in peace. I speak in hyperbole and like to use provocative buzzwords, but I can assure you i am not the enemy!

View attachment 4079

Dude, I asked a question, I’m not a militant commie coming for your freedom of speech. No treaty needed, I think you’re hilarious

 

[ATCJoe85]

id rather take a FERs medical retirement and go fishing ?

Just put me in a plastic bubble at my local TRACON, pay me what I make now, and I can go back to what I did during my 6 months of training suspension: updating airport emergency contact numbers and day trading.

 

[GulfCharlie]

I'm just a few years too young to remember, but didn't airport security usually handle these things before? Simple rules: no guns in your carry on, no bombs at all. That's all we need.

We don't need to be tossing water bottles at the security line and disassembling our outfit before body scanning in a yoga pose.

I've said it before, but for the 99th time, the events of 9/11 are not recreatable. It was a one-off that took advantage of passengers who reasonably figured the hijackers would be landing and having a multi-day standoff at the airport with police. There was no necessary change in the airport security process, because from that day forward no conscious group of people would sit idly by and let hijackers take control of their aircraft. But somehow everybody got caught up in "boxcutters" and how those little instruments single handedly killed 3000 people. Oh, if only they hadn't had those box cutters.

Full disclosure, I was 11 at the time and flown only a few times so my recollection might not be completely accurate. My memory is that security was privatised (You will still find it at places too slow for TSA, aka Enid Oklahoma and they are still required to adhere to TSA regulations) and they only had to follow Federal Law without there being (again according to memory) a agency with complete oversight to verify daily adherence to regulations. You would be surprised even to this day how many people still put guns in their carry on.

One case comes to mind: A widow (older woman) was flying from OKC out to who remembers where with her new boy toy and low and behold we found a six shooter in her carry on. Come to find out the woman's former husband put it in there for her protection and she had not used the handbag in literally years. Standard policy was and to my knowledge still is, since it is Oklahaoma, depending on the story or attitude of the individual is to return the firearm to them upon arrival back into OKC/call someone to give it to. People fail to adhere to the simplest of rules/laws, to ask anything more is literally or even for the sake of simplicity is akin to climbing Mount Everest without conditioning.

 

[PushingTin]

What do you think a liberal arts degree is, and why is it worse than a “normal” degree?

Dude, I asked a question, I’m not a militant commie coming for your freedom of speech. No treaty needed, I think you’re hilarious

fair enough. I think a liberal arts degree actually IS a "normal" degree. I think most normal degrees are largely worthless, despite their 250k tuition costs. In fairness, a liberal arts degree is worth more than an ATC CTI degree though lol. I think you will find that employers are going away from strict higher education requirements, and more to an experience based model. A liberal arts degree is mostly good for social conformity imo. You attended, you showed up to class, you graduated. Maybe you gained a bit more wordlly knowledge, maybe not. Do you have any skills tho? can you fix my air conditioning? My car engine? Rewire my house? Fix the drainage issues that are warping the foundation of my house? Shit dude, most law degrees are largely useless too, unless your dad is partner in a major firm (it is still a personal goal of mine to graduate from law school and defend little people from big government forces). Covid-19 i think will change higher education forever. Its insane that these universities are still charging 50k a semester for online classes. Anyway, I love the humanities. A Philosophy or gender studies degree would be fun and interesting to get, but it wouldnt be worth shit as a practical matter for gainful employment. SO yeah, I guess i meant "liberal arts" as the prejorative you took it as. Nothing to do with the word "liberal" tho. I respect liberals, even tho i disagree with them

 

[Peter Gibbons]

fair enough. I think a liberal arts degree actually IS a "normal" degree. I think most normal degrees are largely worthless, despite their 250k tuition costs. In fairness, a liberal arts degree is worth more than an ATC CTI degree though lol. I think you will find that employers are going away from strict higher education requirements, and more to an experience based model. A liberal arts degree is mostly good for social conformity imo. You attended, you showed up to class, you graduated. Maybe you gained a bit more wordlly knowledge, maybe not. Do you have any skills tho? can you fix my air conditioning? My car engine? Rewire my house? Fix the drainage issues that are warping the foundation of my house? Shit dude, most law degrees are largely useless too, unless your dad is partner in a major firm (it is still a personal goal of mine to graduate from law school and defend little people from big government forces). Covid-19 i think will change higher education forever. Its insane that these universities are still charging 50k a semester for online classes. Anyway, I love the humanities. A Philosophy or gender studies degree would be fun and interesting to get, but it wouldnt be worth shit as a practical matter for gainful employment. SO yeah, I guess i meant "liberal arts" as the prejorative you took it as.

Student loan past due notice printer go brrrrrr

 

[PushingTin]

Student loan past due notice printer go brrrrrr

 

[Soss]

Money printer go BRRR

Print it, baby!

brrr.money

 

[Merle]

fair enough. I think a liberal arts degree actually IS a "normal" degree. I think most normal degrees are largely worthless, despite their 250k tuition costs. In fairness, a liberal arts degree is worth more than an ATC CTI degree though lol. I think you will find that employers are going away from strict higher education requirements, and more to an experience based model. A liberal arts degree is mostly good for social conformity imo. You attended, you showed up to class, you graduated. Maybe you gained a bit more wordlly knowledge, maybe not. Do you have any skills tho? can you fix my air conditioning? My car engine? Rewire my house? Fix the drainage issues that are warping the foundation of my house? Shit dude, most law degrees are largely useless too, unless your dad is partner in a major firm (it is still a personal goal of mine to graduate from law school and defend little people from big government forces). Covid-19 i think will change higher education forever. Its insane that these universities are still charging 50k a semester for online classes. Anyway, I love the humanities. A Philosophy or gender studies degree would be fun and interesting to get, but it wouldnt be worth shit as a practical matter for gainful employment. SO yeah, I guess i meant "liberal arts" as the prejorative you took it as. Nothing to do with the word "liberal" tho. I respect liberals, even tho i disagree with them

Yeah, I get it. I fix my own plumbing, do my own oil changes, take my guns to the range, etc. and I didn’t get any of that from school. I have a “liberal arts degree” with a STEM major, which just means I had extra reading to do compared to the kids at state 45 minutes down the road.
Was it “worth it?” I mean, I don’t work in my field anymore, but I feel like my life is better off and I wasn’t financially ruined like a lot of folks ??‍♀️

 

[mnsalty]

So I'll say this about furloughs. I found it interesting on a recent telcon that the union said you should thank your union for no furloughs and that other air traffic controllers have been furloughed. Now, I don't doubt that other ATC have been furloughed around the world. But I can't find of any and I am guessing that they are part of a privatized system which the union has repeatedly advocated for.

As for stateside, DHS which includes TSA & CBP as well as US Customs & Immigration have issued 13,000 furlough notices and from what I can tell, classified it as a reduction in force. Now, it doesn't appear that any of them will be permanently removed but they do think it will be 30-90 days.

Here is one article. You can find plenty more if you want to do a Google.

USCIS pushes potential furlough date for 13,400 employees back to August

A "dramatic decrease in revenue" during the coronavirus pandemic had initially forced U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services to consider furloughs for a large portion of its workforce in July.

federalnewsnetwork.com

So now natca is bragging they saved 2152s from furloughs when a month ago they claimed they weren’t being discussed? How interesting

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Yeah, I get it. I fix my own plumbing, do my own oil changes, take my guns to the range, etc. and I didn’t get any of that from school. I have a “liberal arts degree” with a STEM major, which just means I had extra reading to do compared to the kids at state 45 minutes down the road.
Was it “worth it?” I mean, I don’t work in my field anymore, but I feel like my life is better off and I wasn’t financially ruined like a lot of folks ??‍♀️

I mean fuck my unfinished degree in "aviation sciences" was under my university's college of liberal arts and if I remember correctly counted as an education degree.

The words liberal arts degree mean absolutely nothing.

 

[Stinger]

This is getting close to being a re-locked thread.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

This is getting close to being a re-locked thread.

Do it. I dare you.

 

[Stinger]

Do it. I dare you.

 

[Stinger]

Open again.
I'm not too sure how the face shield test is going/went. But I have heard that OJT resumes no later than next week.
Other people have probably heard more than me this week, so if anyone has more info post away!

 

[32andBelow]

Open again.
I'm not too sure how the face shield test is going/went. But I have heard that OJT resumes no later than next week.
Other people have probably heard more than me this week, so if anyone has more info post away!

My Training OM said it may restart next week to include the lab and face shield are optional. Him saying may means it sounds good. He never says shit that he thinks isn’t gonna happen

 

[Soss]

If they're smart they'll stagger the returns and have those who need the lab time the most come in first, followed in priority order. 32andBelow hopefully you're not Stinger's source