Article 19 - Hazardous Weather Leave

[HighFrequency]

Does anyone here have experience using Article 19, or have you seen it denied during bad weather?

We're currently going on our 4th foot of snow in 5 days, and a few people have called out sick instead of invoking the article. Residential roads are basically unplowed for days.

General consensus among new people is they didn't even know Article 19 was a thing. New ATM has never been in the role before and the supes are worried about him being overzealous and pushing back (like they are over everything). 🙄

I'm of the opinion that this job is never worth risking your safety over, or that it's even worth a $100 tow to come in. Call me crazy.

 

[ncssailor]

Does anyone here have experience using Article 19, or have you seen it denied during bad weather?

We're currently going on our 4th foot of snow in 5 days, and a few people have called out sick instead of invoking the article. General consensus among new people is they didn't even know it was a thing. New ATM has never been in the role before and the supes are worried about him pushing back (like they are over everything). 🙄

NATCA Rep should be advocating for this is conditions are that bad.
Doesn’t mean people do not have to attempt to come to work…our opening shifts get to leave as staffing shows up for the day. Unfortunately the closing people generally have to work their whole shift.
If people don’t want to attempt to make it into work that’s a different story and need to use leave.

 

[HighFrequency]

NATCA Rep should be advocating for this is conditions are that bad.
Doesn’t mean people do not have to attempt to come to work…our opening shifts get to leave as staffing shows up for the day. Unfortunately the closing people generally have to work their whole shift.
If people don’t want to attempt to make it into work that’s a different story and need to use leave.

Worst series of winter storms I've seen here, and they're definitely making an attempt to come in. CPCs on the floor are accommodating, management is just being weird. They're worried about early releases per the Article too, even with the staffing. It's getting exhausting.

Gonna see what my rep says for sure.

 

[ncssailor]

Worst series of winter storms I've seen here, and they're definitely making an attempt to come in. CPCs on the floor are accommodating, management is just being weird. They're worried about early releases per the Article too, even with the staffing. It's getting exhausting.

Gonna see what my rep says for sure.

I can’t imagine the traffic level is a reason for keeping max staffing? If the weather is that shitty.
Is tech ops in the building or is their management releasing them?
Sounds like they being stingy asses.

 

[Caerbannog]

Our old atm used to drive a 4 wheel drive tundra into work and you had to put him into a headlock to approve any sort of haz wx leave. "If I can make it to work, so can you" I remember the post office even shutting down and we had 20 people at work to stare at 6 split off empty scopes.

 

[32andBelow]

You call in and state I am using article 19. Then they will review it after the fact and either give admin or charge you leave. But when they review it’s with the atm and Natca. Doesn’t hurt to to take picture of your Prius buried in your driveway or stuff like that.

 

[RH316]

As soon as you check out and get your CPC money, you immediately buy your rear wheel drive corvette. No one is expecting you to get to work in even an inch of snow 😉

 

[Phillytroll69]

Does anyone here have experience using Article 19, or have you seen it denied during bad weather?

We're currently going on our 4th foot of snow in 5 days, and a few people have called out sick instead of invoking the article. Residential roads are basically unplowed for days.

General consensus among new people is they didn't even know Article 19 was a thing. New ATM has never been in the role before and the supes are worried about him being overzealous and pushing back (like they are over everything). 🙄

I'm of the opinion that this job is never worth risking your safety over, or that it's even worth a $100 tow to come in. Call me crazy.

Invoking? It SHALL be approved. They can't deny it. What is the pushback? You get charged leave IF it can't be at a later date.

https://www.michalsons.com/blog/reasonable-efforts-what-is-the-standard/1778

 

[the inquirer]

I used to use it plenty when I lived up north. If you are the only person calling in, then it would be questionable. But even then, we had one guy that lived in the sticks and his streets wouldn’t get plowed til much later in the day and he was approved for it more often then everyone else. And yes, take pictures. I’ve also used it because I was 30 min late because I had to drive half the speed limit the whole way due to black ice on the roads. I took 5 pictures while driving of cars, trucks, and city busses in ditches. I’m sure if you’re on your quick turn and have to shovel your driveway, an hour or two wouldn’t be out of question also.

 

[HCTFMGISTG]

Meanwhile we’re approving Art 19 for rainstorms because there’s a puddle or two on someone’s street.

 

[32andBelow]

Meanwhile we’re approving Art 19 for rainstorms because there’s a puddle or two on someone’s street.

You don’t approve article 19. It’s automatically granted.

 

[mcubed820]

It was granted to a bunch of people at our facility two weeks ago on Friday. Where I live, we pay for sidewalks and driveways to be plowed in our rent, never happened. City/County/whoever seemed to basically forget about our newer neighborhood. I texted OS 5 hours before my shift on Saturday and explained everything and was trying to shovel. Called an hour before to say I was using Article 19. Was told to send in updates hourly. Kept sending pictures and an email from our property management. Was then told by the OS to send a 360 degree video, which I did. Talked to my facrep who said they would talk to OS (idk if they did). The OS said my Article 19 leave was approved pending further review. I asked if I should keep sending them pictures to which the OS stated, "If you think it'll help show your situation, yeah." Was then called into the office by my ATM to discuss my use of Article 19 and to be more prepared for the snow next time.

That's my experience with it. It felt like management, and some controllers, were really against me using it when I literally could not get out of my neighborhood.

 

[ncssailor]

It was granted to a bunch of people at our facility two weeks ago on Friday. Where I live, we pay for sidewalks and driveways to be plowed in our rent, never happened. City/County/whoever seemed to basically forget about our newer neighborhood. I texted OS 5 hours before my shift on Saturday and explained everything and was trying to shovel. Called an hour before to say I was using Article 19. Was told to send in updates hourly. Kept sending pictures and an email from our property management. Was then told by the OS to send a 360 degree video, which I did. Talked to my facrep who said they would talk to OS (idk if they did). The OS said my Article 19 leave was approved pending further review. I asked if I should keep sending them pictures to which the OS stated, "If you think it'll help show your situation, yeah." Was then called into the office by my ATM to discuss my use of Article 19 and to be more prepared for the snow next time.

That's my experience with it. It felt like management, and some controllers, were really against me using it when I literally could not get out of my neighborhood.

View attachment 9248

It’s like they should maybe buy everyone a 4x4 truck because they think there’s no excuse not to get to work and they get stingy AF with Article 19 legit reasoning. Had my manager try that bullshit on me once, literally 5 ft drifts across the roads and it took bulldozers to clear the roads that storm. Even with my 4x4 finally made it in 2 hours late but wanted to see all this evidence.

 

[DankVectorz]

I’ve used it several times over the last 10 years and never had it questioned. Some people I know have been asked to provide “additional info” but only a few times had it denied, and even they admit they just took a chance with it expecting to mostnlikely get charged sick leave. Our local posts Article 19 info all over the building and in emails at the beginning of winter and before every snowy forecast

 

[mcubed820]

It’s like they should maybe buy everyone a 4x4 truck because they think there’s no excuse not to get to work and they get stingy AF with Article 19 legit reasoning. Had my manager try that bullshit on me once, literally 5 ft drifts across the roads and it took bulldozers to clear the roads that storm. Even with my 4x4 finally made it in 2 hours late but wanted to see all this evidence.

Yeah I didn’t mind providing evidence it just all seemed an little excessive lol

 

[Phillytroll69]

Yeah I didn’t mind providing evidence it just all seemed an little excessive lol

Is an extra 2 hours with 5 foot drifts a reasonable person's commute?

Your reward for showing up was getting to drive back out and get pictures.

 

[Foppery&Whim]

The old FAI ATM notified us directly don't come to work due to heavy snow & hazards. Granted ATM was a local, but knew what to do.

 

[Phillytroll69]

Yeah I didn’t mind providing evidence it just all seemed an little excessive lol

it was next time just take the whole day

 

[After_Victor]

It was granted to a bunch of people at our facility two weeks ago on Friday. Where I live, we pay for sidewalks and driveways to be plowed in our rent, never happened. City/County/whoever seemed to basically forget about our newer neighborhood. I texted OS 5 hours before my shift on Saturday and explained everything and was trying to shovel. Called an hour before to say I was using Article 19. Was told to send in updates hourly. Kept sending pictures and an email from our property management. Was then told by the OS to send a 360 degree video, which I did. Talked to my facrep who said they would talk to OS (idk if they did). The OS said my Article 19 leave was approved pending further review. I asked if I should keep sending them pictures to which the OS stated, "If you think it'll help show your situation, yeah." Was then called into the office by my ATM to discuss my use of Article 19 and to be more prepared for the snow next time.

That's my experience with it. It felt like management, and some controllers, were really against me using it when I literally could not get out of my neighborhood.

View attachment 9248

Your rep needs better training. One attempt is all that must be made. Period. If they charge you leave, grieve it and call your RVP

 

[Phillytroll69]

Your rep needs better training. One attempt is all that must be made. Period. If they charge you leave, grieve it and call your RVP

No, it says reasonable effort. Not attempt. I'd consider an attempt on an unpaved road unreasonable.

Is it reasonable to use two hours because you're shoveling the bottom of your driveway? Yeah.
Is it reasonable to say I'll be in after they plow my road? Yes
The article is designed for this. It unfortunately ends up being used, like everything else, by the scammers. For instance, in a light dusting, is it reasonable for you to slowly drive. Hurr durr I can't work my 10 shower I took a picture.

I texted OS 5 hours before my shift on Saturday and explained everything and was trying to shovel. Called an hour before to say I was using Article 19. Was told to send in updates hourly. Kept sending pictures and an email from our property management. Was then told by the OS to send a 360 degree video, which I did. Talked to my facrep who said they would talk to OS (idk if they did). The OS said my Article 19 leave was approved pending further review. I asked if I should keep sending them pictures to which the OS stated, "If you think it'll help show your situation, yeah." Was then called into the office by my ATM to discuss my use of Article 19 and to be more prepared for the snow next time.

That's my experience with it. It felt like management, and some controllers, were really against me using it when I literally could not get out of my neighborhood.

"I texted my OS?" No, never. You call, show me on article 19 and hangup.

Was told to send hourly updates? File a grievance wtf am I reading. That's a clear violation.

Then you talked to your facrep...?

Your facility is bass ackwards. Also, if they only talked to you and you don't feel like dealing with it say fine show me on sick leave.

Also I just realized I could use this in summer thunderstorms "shall be approved" and once it's reviewed say fine just show me on credit. No swap season for me baby!