Controllers/Management

[TCASsie]

On my god management might try to do something...what’s the worst they could do? Talk to you? Letter of reprimand? Why are people so scared of manament? Are there really any stories of how someone truly got railroaded, without doing anything wrong? I’m sorry to say but every story I’ve ever heard and seen people who got in trouble, actually did something, got caught or rubbed it in the face on management, said something to the wrong person. They deserved it. This isn’t pro management, this is saying they are lazy and do you think any one of them actually wants to do the work involved to discipline someone? They are few and far between.

A normal sick day will not and absolutey should cause you to get in trouble. But if you do it excessively that’s when you’ll deserve it. You’ll be screwing your co workers any way. So cheers to you and thanks.

FINALLY someone sticking up for management (sort of), thank you!! All the managers I know (I know quite a few) are some of the coolest controllers I’ve met, very lenient and understanding until you try to take advantage of them and/or the situation. Surprisingly the managers actually LIKE their jobs, whereas a decent amount of non-management controllers I’ve met complain about coming in for their 8 hour shift even when they literally work one hour on position and then have an hour break ?

 

[CaptainObvious]

FINALLY someone sticking up for management (sort of), thank you!! All the managers I know (I know quite a few) are some of the coolest controllers I’ve met, very lenient and understanding until you try to take advantage of them and/or the situation. Surprisingly the managers actually LIKE their jobs, whereas a decent amount of non-management controllers I’ve met complain about coming in for their 8 hour shift even when they literally work one hour on position and then have an hour break ?

Since you’re not even in the FAA yet, I’m going to venture that you haven’t met many managers and seen some of the BS they like to pull.

 

[DankVectorz]

All the managers I know (I know quite a few) are some of the coolest controllers I’ve met

They’re not controllers. And it’s easy to be cool when you just sit at a desk browsing the Internet all day long. Don’t talk about things you don’t have experience with.

 

[TCASsie]

Since you’re not even in the FAA yet, I’m going to venture that you haven’t met many managers and seen some of the BS they like to pull.

My dad is actually a manager... and I volunteered in May at the FAAMA meeting at Talking Stick. But thank you for your assumption. Seeing as you’re probably not a manager, I’m going to venture a guess that you don’t understand the BS non-managers like to try to get away with and how managers come home worried about finding a way to make everyone happy. You and I see things differently because we are exposed to the FAA in different ways

They’re not controllers. And it’s easy to be cool when you just sit at a desk browsing the Internet all day long. Don’t talk about things you don’t have experience with.

Lmao okay whatever you say

 

[DankVectorz]

My dad is actually a manager... and I volunteered in May at the FAAMA meeting at Talking Stick. But thank you for your assumption. Seeing as you’re probably not a manager, I’m going to venture a guess that you don’t understand the BS non-managers like to try to get away with and how managers come home worried about finding a way to make everyone happy. You and I see things differently because we are exposed to the FAA in different ways

You’re exposed to your dad. You’re not exposed to FAA management. You sound like a Civil Air Patroller talking about their military experience

 

[TCASsie]

You’re exposed to your dad. You’re not exposed to FAA management

Did you... did you READ what I posted? I volunteer with FAAMA... I’m constantly going to the facility to help out and observe... I did an internship at an FAA facility. I actually helped host a managers Christmas party about a week ago. Hell yeah I’m biased because these guys are like dads to me (and one of them actually IS my dad), but y’all are definitely biased because you’re not managers. I sincerely hope you don’t pursue the management route anytime in your career since your managers are such monsters

 

[DankVectorz]

Did you... did you READ what I posted? I volunteer with FAAMA... I’m constantly going to the facility to help out and observe... I did an internship at an FAA facility. I actually helped host a managers Christmas party about a week ago. Hell yeah I’m biased because these guys are like dads to me (and one of them actually IS my dad), but y’all are definitely biased because you’re not managers. I sincerely hope you don’t pursue the management route anytime in your career since your managers are such monsters

Ok you’re like a candy striper talking about their surgical experience

 

[TCASsie]

Ok you’re like a candy striper talking about their surgical experience

And you’re like a nothing-special-about-me-controller talking about being a manager ??‍♀️

 

[Dontbotherme]

Did you... did you READ what I posted? I volunteer with FAAMA... I’m constantly going to the facility to help out and observe... I did an internship at an FAA facility. I actually helped host a managers Christmas party about a week ago. Hell yeah I’m biased because these guys are like dads to me (and one of them actually IS my dad), but y’all are definitely biased because you’re not managers. I sincerely hope you don’t pursue the management route anytime in your career since your managers are such monsters

How have you helped out and observed? Was this by bringing coffee and donuts for the office staff? That’s like thanking a RPO for working a push from the labs! Was this management Christmas party, you helped host, as good as the $5M one in Atlanta in 2009? People go into management because they can’t work traffic or they are trying to find less work to do, but they’ll tell you they did it “to help make the agency a better place!”

 

[Dontbotherme]

Can they give you a note?

They will send you a doctor’s note, through their message center, which you can then print off for your records.

 

[DankVectorz]

And you’re like a nothing-special-about-me-controller talking about being a manager ??‍♀️

You know in most facilities managers don’t even get certified in more than 1 position? When they’re certifying a trainee, a cpc has to be plugged in with them too. They’re not controllers and most can’t even manage a break schedule correctly. Are you familiar with the term CIC? Controller in charge. That’s when us non special non-management controllers act as the manager when they’re not there. It’s consjdered a break from working

 

[DL0509]

Did you... did you READ what I posted? I volunteer with FAAMA... I’m constantly going to the facility to help out and observe... I did an internship at an FAA facility. I actually helped host a managers Christmas party about a week ago. Hell yeah I’m biased because these guys are like dads to me (and one of them actually IS my dad), but y’all are definitely biased because you’re not managers. I sincerely hope you don’t pursue the management route anytime in your career since your managers are such monsters

Just because you volunteer with FAAMA doesn't mean you have a good basis to say managers are cool and controllers. Most controllers on this forum have been to more than one facility or have seen enough FLMs come through to back up what they say here. Some FLMs are larger facility aren't required to certify on all positions, not sure if it's true but I've heard some FLMs at centers only cert on Dsides or data. If that's all they are certified on IMO they aren't controllers just Cru-Art managers. I've only been in the FAA for 2.5 years but out of 11 FLMs I've worked under, only 2 weren't traffic dodgers and actually did their best to help Controllers out.

 

[TCASsie]

Jeez guys I didn’t think me sticking up for managers would get all your panties into a bunch... all I’m saying is I have first-hand experience with managers and their character, whereas y’all just see them as the guys who deny your leave. I’m sorry you’ve all had bad experiences with your FLM’s, I suggest either moving to a facility with talk of good management, or attempting to become better acquainted with your current managers. The managers I know actually are checked out on all positions within their facility, and keep current every month. These guys are constantly taking their work home with them, taking calls in the middle of Christmas dinner, coming in for overtime on Christmas Day because a handful of controllers called out. There are definitely some duds within the same facility, definitely some lazy fat guys sitting on their butts doing the minimum amount of work, but that’s not to say ALL managers are like that or ALL managers suck. I’m sure all you guys can work some mean traffic and give some dank vectors, but don’t discredit all managers just because your current managers suck. I honestly hope you can all find some good facilities with some good managers, everyone deserves a good manager every once in a while

 

[Maintainvfr]

Jeez guys I didn’t think me sticking up for managers would get all your panties into a bunch... all I’m saying is I have first-hand experience with managers and their character, whereas y’all just see them as the guys who deny your leave. I’m sorry you’ve all had bad experiences with your FLM’s, I suggest either moving to a facility with talk of good management, or attempting to become better acquainted with your current managers. The managers I know actually are checked out on all positions within their facility, and keep current every month. These guys are constantly taking their work home with them, taking calls in the middle of Christmas dinner, coming in for overtime on Christmas Day because a handful of controllers called out. There are definitely some duds within the same facility, definitely some lazy fat guys sitting on their butts doing the minimum amount of work, but that’s not to say ALL managers are like that or ALL managers suck. I’m sure all you guys can work some mean traffic and give some dank vectors, but don’t discredit all managers just because your current managers suck. I honestly hope you can all find some good facilities with some good managers, everyone deserves a good manager every once in a while

I would argue that we actually have first hand experience with the managers and their character, where as you see them as the guys that attend your parties and hang out with your dad. You have no idea what any of them are actually like to work for, that's the difference. I'm sure to someone that isn't a controller, some of the stuff they talk about sounds like a great idea. Then you get to a facility and realize wait a second this dude wants me to combine three busy positions so he can get currency on an easy sector? Then he denied another guys leave because it might be windy that day? He does shit against the contract just to "make sure we're paying attention"? Then you see a new FLM show up and terminate someone's training "just to show he means business."

I'm not saying your dad isn't a great guy or a great manager, I (probably) don't know him. I've been to a lot of facilities and have met some good managers. I've met a lot of bad ones too. I know some that are great guys outside of work and they put on that tie and you would think they have a personality disorder.

Also, theres more small facilities than large ones and at small facilities the FLMs often stay current on everything, but currency often times means 6 or 10 hours a month. At larger facilities, the overwhelming majority of FLMs do not certify on more than a couple positions and like someone said above, at some places it's not even a scope.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Lol I haven't seen a supervisor used as controller OT in YEARS. You need to widen your view of management because you are the one who's vision is skewed.

 

[pinesolius]

I don’t know what a FAAMA is but I mean, if you let me go to a Christmas party and drink, I’ll be cool as hell too. If the ATM position is anything like the MCS position where I work, they just sit at a computer and answer the cell phone all day. And the person calling them is a higher up whose job is even less important. That being said, they are usually dicks to the people who actually do the work when the numbers don’t look good, which is always the case unless they send in fake numbers, which is always the case.

 

[zachsss]

Now this is the quality content I signed up for.

 

[TCASsie]

I would argue that we actually have first hand experience with the managers and their character, where as you see them as the guys that attend your parties and hang out with your dad. You have no idea what any of them are actually like to work for, that's the difference. I'm sure to someone that isn't a controller, some of the stuff they talk about sounds like a great idea. Then you get to a facility and realize wait a second this dude wants me to combine three busy positions so he can get currency on an easy sector? Then he denied another guys leave because it might be windy that day? He does shit against the contract just to "make sure we're paying attention"? Then you see a new FLM show up and terminate someone's training "just to show he means business."

I'm not saying your dad isn't a great guy or a great manager, I (probably) don't know him. I've been to a lot of facilities and have met some good managers. I've met a lot of bad ones too. I know some that are great guys outside of work and they put on that tie and you would think they have a personality disorder.

Also, theres more small facilities than large ones and at small facilities the FLMs often stay current on everything, but currency often times means 6 or 10 hours a month. At larger facilities, the overwhelming majority of FLMs do not certify on more than a couple positions and like someone said above, at some places it's not even a scope.

Man like I said I’m sorry you’ve seen your fair share of bad managers. I’m not trying to say everyone is lying about how badly their current or past managers suck, but I don’t want all managers discredited because some of them actually try their hardest to work with you and even for you. My dad IS a cool guy, a good amount of his coworkers are cool guys too, but there are also a few select managers that we aren’t fond of because they don’t do anything and it makes the other managers who actually do their job work twice as hard to pick up the slack. When I was an intern and shadowing some controllers, most of them would try to explain things to me and then talk about their manager and how awesome he is and how they’ve never had a good manager like him (talking about my dad). They didn’t know I was his kid (we look NOTHING alike) so it was a really proud moment for me to hear that my dad is actually respected, and I got to go home and tell him about all the people that legit like him. Idk as a kid you like to hear that stuff, it kind of makes the whole “I look up to my dad” thing more prominent.

And he does work at a big facility just to throw that out there. I believe it’s a level 12. He’s been management since his last facility (7 years ago? Idk he’s been in for a long time) and he’s stayed current on every position at each facility. Like I said earlier, some of these guys are like a dad to me, but some of them also got the death stare from me at the Christmas party ? I appreciate your outlook

 

[vectorwagon]

Can you imagine what a dick this guy is going to be when he gets to his facility(assuming he is pursuing atc) lord help em

 

[rugbydog11]

"there are good and bad controllers. there are good and bad supervisors. there are good and bad managers."
can we all agree on this statement?