Hiring Bid FAA-ATO-19-ALLSRCE-61676

corn4ahead

Forum Sage
Messages
411
The bill was introduced because the CTI schools whined to their congressmen - look at what states the senators who introduced the bill are from. Regional and issue-specific bills like this get introduced all the time, and a large percentage of them never go anywhere, but the senator still gets votes and a fat check for caring about their constituents' issues. In reality, I think it will be a hard sell for this to actually make it into a law - by heavily favoring expensive private colleges for preferential hiring for government jobs, you're inevitably gonna see a lot less racial and socioeconomic diversity among controllers, and I think a lot of people are gonna make noise about essentially locking underprivileged minorities out of highly lucrative government jobs.
The argument from CTI schools/students though is that they are told before they paid for CTI that this was THE way ( other than military) to become a controller, much like going to law school is the way to become a lawyer.

The goal is not to fill the workplace with diversity, the goal is to fill to workplace with the best qualified candidates. Diversity is important, but the FAA, went about it in the wrong way in my opinion.

And let's be real here, ANYONE can get a college loan these days, so socioeconomic status really doesn't matter.
 
Messages
16
The argument from CTI schools/students though is that they are told before they paid for CTI that this was THE way ( other than military) to become a controller, much like going to law school is the way to become a lawyer.
Well now I'm confused. Are you saying that they should prioritize CTI just to be fair to students who have already graduated? In its current form, I really do think CTI is largely a racket - since they no longer have a monopoly on becoming a controller, they have a lot less students than they used to, so they won't turn away anyone regardless of their skills or age or ability to hold a medical. If the success rate for CTI graduates were substantially higher than for OTS then it might be different, but I've never seen anything showing that it is. And since the FAA is fully capable of taking an OTS hire and turning them into a great controller, adding a for-profit institution into the mix seems illogical.

The goal is not to fill the workplace with diversity, the goal is to fill to workplace with the best qualified candidates. Diversity is important, but the FAA, went about it in the wrong way in my opinion.
Agreed in theory, but in practice this is hard to separate for a federal agency. The BioQ came about in part because people decided the controller workforce was too male and white, and they ultimately intentionally hired less qualified minority candidates over better qualified candidates in order to increase diversity. Obviously no one thinks this was handled well, but the impetus behind that is still out there, and going to any system that adds barriers to low-income or minority applicants will be a huge political roadblock.

And let's be real here, ANYONE can get a college loan these days, so socioeconomic status really doesn't matter.
I would disagree with this. Sure, it's relatively easy to get a student loan, but that's a very small part of it. Things like having to work part-time in high school to support your family, helping to care for family members, living in a less well-off neighborhood with subpar education, and getting lower grades in school as a result of all this. Even if college was free, there's a substantial financial burden to taking a family member out of the workforce, possibly moving away from home, etc. etc. In a way, I'd argue that getting a CTI degree is even less attainable for someone like this than any other degree. Why would someone who's poor take out massive loans to get a highly specialized degree in a very specific field that only has one possible employer, especially when that degree isn't even required to get the job?
 

Alpha_bravo2

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
76
Facility
PNS Pensacola Tower
The argument from CTI schools/students though is that they are told before they paid for CTI that this was THE way ( other than military) to become a controller, much like going to law school is the way to become a lawyer.

The goal is not to fill the workplace with diversity, the goal is to fill to workplace with the best qualified candidates. Diversity is important, but the FAA, went about it in the wrong way in my opinion.

And let's be real here, ANYONE can get a college loan these days, so socioeconomic status really doesn't matter.
Can CTI students really still use the excuse that they were told it was this or the military. The purge happened in what 2013 or 2014 and since then it's been a known fact that you don't need a CTI degree to get this job. At some point CTI students need to realize they are getting a degree that will only benefit them by skipping Basics. On the FAAs CTI page it clearly states that going to a CTI school does not guarantee them a job.

The law school analogy is weak because even after you go to law school you still have to pass exams to become a lawyer just like ATC it's not automatic. In some states you can take the bar without going to law school.

At the end of the day what matters is getting more people to CPC, and we all know that OTS, prior exp and CTI can all CPC. I personally don't care if you worked at Eglin, McDonald's, or went to ERAU as long as you can work traffic.
 

corn4ahead

Forum Sage
Messages
411
Can CTI students really still use the excuse that they were told it was this or the military. The purge happened in what 2013 or 2014 and since then it's been a known fact that you don't need a CTI degree to get this job. At some point CTI students need to realize they are getting a degree that will only benefit them by skipping Basics. On the FAAs CTI page it clearly states that going to a CTI school does not guarantee them a job.

The law school analogy is weak because even after you go to law school you still have to pass exams to become a lawyer just like ATC it's not automatic. In some states you can take the bar without going to law school.

At the end of the day what matters is getting more people to CPC, and we all know that OTS, prior exp and CTI can all CPC. I personally don't care if you worked at Eglin, McDonald's, or went to ERAU as long as you can work traffic.
Is it still valid? Probably not, but the lawsuit was initiated by people who were told that CTI was the way. We both know how long lawsuits take. That is my point.

I agree with just about everything you say though.
 

Dolan

Trusted Contributor
Messages
243
On the FAAs CTI page it clearly states that going to a CTI school does not guarantee them a job.
However, FAA has stated that a CTI degree WILL guarantee you a *chance* at the job, and for the years leading up to the BioQ that was absolutely a true statement. Everyone who scored WQ on the ATSAT up until the BioQ at least had a chance to go to OKC as a trainee.
 

Alpha_bravo2

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
76
Facility
PNS Pensacola Tower
However, FAA has stated that a CTI degree WILL guarantee you a *chance* at the job, and for the years leading up to the BioQ that was absolutely a true statement. Everyone who scored WQ on the ATSAT up until the BioQ at least had a chance to go to OKC as a trainee.
That was in the past, my point is that since then the FAA has come out and said the CTI program is not a guarantee. Anyone that went to CTI school since the purge isn't gaining anything by getting that degree.
 

nbk14

Member
Messages
98
I think the invites might come out this month. They sent the FSS one 1.5 month later.

Has anyone been able to correct their resume once the bid closed?
 

ChuckMastaT

Trusted Contributor
Messages
80
I think the invites might come out this month. They sent the FSS one 1.5 month later.

Has anyone been able to correct their resume once the bid closed?
Like everyone been saying, don't hold your breath. Last year I applied around the same time and didn't get an invite for the ATSA until September 25th, and didn't take the ATSA until November 2nd. It's a long wait.
 

tunwno

Forum Sage
Messages
299
Like everyone been saying, don't hold your breath. Last year I applied around the same time and didn't get an invite for the ATSA until September 25th, and didn't take the ATSA until November 2nd. It's a long wait.
Yea I posted my timeline a couple of pages back. Reference it. It’s been similar the past couple of years. Also after the ATSA, continue with your lives. It’s going to be a long wait.
 

Rallan

Member
Messages
32
Like everyone been saying, don't hold your breath. Last year I applied around the same time and didn't get an invite for the ATSA until September 25th, and didn't take the ATSA until November 2nd. It's a long wait.
Yes but last year was about 6 weeks later in the summer. So 6 weeks earlier than Sept. 25 would be about this time.
 
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