New Property Special- Entire 2 bed house $63/day

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jballen004 Tubadude2

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204
But of course, only pulling from CTI would only work if there were TONS of easy to get scholarships or forgivable government loans AND if the government HIGHLY audited the classes and gave specific lesson plans and materials instead of just a short list of vague requirements and have FAA proctors for something like a pilot's check-ride or dispatch oral and practical... which, if you have seen how a Dispatch class is run, you'll know that the FAA is more than capable of doing all of that.
AKA 99% of the already established basics course. Lol
 

KAB

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112
AKA 99% of the already established basics course. Lol
Right. Honestly, if one was CTI last year and scored Well/Best Qualified, they were guaranteed a spot. If that trend continues, I think that's enough of a CTI advantage. Haha I'm cool with the status quo as set by last year. Now that I have a CTI degree/recommendation, I would love for it to look exactly like it did last year, because with my Best Qualified score from last year, I'm guaranteed a spot (barring drug, medical, MMPI, etc.)
 

32andBelow

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Messages
610
Right. Honestly, if one was CTI last year and scored Well/Best Qualified, they were guaranteed a spot. If that trend continues, I think that's enough of a CTI advantage. Haha I'm cool with the status quo as set by last year. Now that I have a CTI degree/recommendation, I would love for it to look exactly like it did last year, because with my Best Qualified score from last year, I'm guaranteed a spot (barring drug, medical, MMPI, etc.)
Well this happened in the past and CTI enrollment skyrocketed. So it’s cyclical
 
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spider

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123
It's easy to care during the hiring process if you're OTS, CTI, or whatever just know that when you get to your facility that no one cares. You're not going to get any kudos because you went to CTI nor are you going to get looked down upon because you're OTS. It's especially a good idea not to share your opinion if you think CTI is better because there's a very good chance that you're trainer is going to be OTS.

Put forward a good attitude, know your LOA's & maps when you get to the floor, and show up on time. The amount of effort your trainers will put into you usually relates to how much effort you put in yourself.
 

JNev

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FAA
Messages
409
Facility
MRY Monterey Tower
It's easy to care during the hiring process if you're OTS, CTI, or whatever just know that when you get to your facility that no one cares. You're not going to get any kudos because you went to CTI nor are you going to get looked down upon because you're OTS. It's especially a good idea not to share your opinion if you think CTI is better because there's a very good chance that you're trainer is going to be OTS.

Put forward a good attitude, know your LOA's & maps when you get to the floor, and show up on time. The amount of effort your trainers will put into you usually relates to how much effort you put in yourself.
No one expects “kudos” for being CTI when they get to their facility or even in Sims, or at least they shouldn’t. I’m simply saying CTI could easily replace Basics (which is worthless) and save the FAA a lot of money.
 

Shawshanked

Member
Messages
18
I don't really know much about basics or CTI and the current pass/fail rates betweeen CTI and OTS but what about the total number of candidates it would eliminate? Aren't there only around 30ish schools that offer a CTI degree? That would be a joke in terms of total throughput wouldn't it? Especially if they start turning away the bad students which they would have to do in order to eliminate basics. So the theoretical 15% would amount to a lot less than what it initially seems.
 

bob smith

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Messages
150
No one expects “kudos” for being CTI when they get to their facility or even in Sims, or at least they shouldn’t. I’m simply saying CTI could easily replace Basics (which is worthless) and save the FAA a lot of money.
Don’t forget to consider some of the unseen benefits that basics offers. You get to become acclimated to you classmates, form study groups, get used to living in the worst state in the union, know where to grab lunch, etc. I think you would see pass rates go down, which might end up costing the FAA more money from washouts.
 

JNev

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FAA
Messages
409
Facility
MRY Monterey Tower
Don’t forget to consider some of the unseen benefits that basics offers. You get to become acclimated to you classmates, form study groups, get used to living in the worst state in the union, know where to grab lunch, etc. I think you would see pass rates go down, which might end up costing the FAA more money from washouts.
So Per Diem alone on Basics is ~$56,000/class. Add salaries (~$24,000 annual salary) and that’s an additional ~$32,000. Let’s say the professors are making $60k and each class has 2.5 professors, add ~$15,000.

That’s an extremely rough estimate but that’s $103,000/class NOT including any other administrative jobs solely needed for basics and the mountains of paper they use.

Is it really worth $100,000/class so grown adults can “get comfortable” in OKC? Not in my book 🤷‍♂️
 

denver0739

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Messages
221
So, to make sure I understand your point... you say drop basics and all OTS people should go to CTI schools?

Either way, I think my original point was misunderstood. The total percent of passing might go up by using only CTI, but the total percent of people entering the “supposedly understaffed” NAS system would drop dramatically.

Simply put, people can’t always afford to go to school like you’re saying. Sure, thousands of people have gone to CTI schools, but if it was such a flooded system of great applicants why is the FAA reaching out to people as an OTS?

FTR, I’m not knocking CTI they are an integral part of the system and bring with them useful knowledge and experience that will help their classmates through the rough 4 months in the academy.

And I partially owe my spot to somebody who was either a vet or a CTI grad. So, thanks to anybody who has helped give me this chance.
 

32andBelow

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Messages
610
So, to make sure I understand your point... you say drop basics and all OTS people should go to CTI schools?

Either way, I think my original point was misunderstood. The total percent of passing might go up by using only CTI, but the total percent of people entering the “supposedly understaffed” NAS system would drop dramatically.

Simply put, people can’t always afford to go to school like you’re saying. Sure, thousands of people have gone to CTI schools, but if it was such a flooded system of great applicants why is the FAA reaching out to people as an OTS?

FTR, I’m not knocking CTI they are an integral part of the system and bring with them useful knowledge and experience that will help their classmates through the rough 4 months in the academy.

And I partially owe my spot to somebody who was either a vet or a CTI grad. So, thanks to anybody who has helped give me this chance.
Back when the CTI system was blown up there was no shortage of CTI applicants. There were like 45 schools graduating thousands a year.
 
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denver0739

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221
Sure, thousands of people have gone to CTI schools, but if it was such a flooded system of great applicants why is the FAA reaching out to people as an OTS?
Back when the CTI system was blown up there was no shortage of CTI applicants. There were like 45 schools graduating thousands a year.
I still come back to this point though, and I’m genuinely posing it as a question, not as a snarky comment or a snear at CTI.

Like I said earlier, I owe my chance in this career to the FAA and to a vet/CTI. I’m happy just to have the chance.

That being said, without basics, I’d never have had this chance. I’m sure plenty of other people would be in the same boat.
 

32andBelow

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Messages
610
I still come back to this point though, and I’m genuinely posing it as a question, not as a snarky comment or a snear at CTI.

Like I said earlier, I owe my chance in this career to the FAA and to a vet/CTI. I’m happy just to have the chance.

That being said, without basics, I’d never have had this chance. I’m sure plenty of other people would be in the same boat.
Back in the CTI days they still had public bids from time to time as needed. I don’t see it any different as any other career. If I want to be a lawyer I can’t just skip law school.
 

Alpha_bravo2

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Messages
172
You guys are thinking way to deep on this. The FAAs main goal is to get bodies at facilities ASAP. Whether it's CTI, VETs, or OTS, they don't care as long as you pass the academy. If the CTI bids were working out as well as they needed, don't you think they'd still be doing them? If you take the OTS components away you are going to have less applicants, therefore slowing the flow of people to facilities. Again the goal is to have more CPCs and a person being CTI or OTS makes no difference they both be are capable washing out and they are both capable of being CPCs.

Back in the CTI days they still had public bids from time to time as needed. I don’t see it any different as any other career. If I want to be a lawyer I can’t just skip law school.
The difference is in this field can you can skip going to CTI school and be just as successful as someone who did go to CTI. The FAA knows that going to a CTI school has no bearing on a person becoming a CPC.
 

BAS92

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FAA
Messages
246
Facility
ZAU Chicago Center
Don’t forget to consider some of the unseen benefits that basics offers. You get to become acclimated to you classmates, form study groups, get used to living in the worst state in the union, know where to grab lunch, etc. I think you would see pass rates go down, which might end up costing the FAA more money from washouts.
Woah, woah, woah... You watch your mouth talking about Oklahoma like that!
 
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Ara

Active Member
Messages
113
Back in the CTI days they still had public bids from time to time as needed. I don’t see it any different as any other career. If I want to be a lawyer I can’t just skip law school.
But you can skip the pre-law and political science undergrad and basically get into law school with an art degree and a high LSAT score, same way you can get into the Academy with a high ATSA score and no prior knowledge.
 

Stewie

Member
Messages
22
Also lets not minimize the pain that one suffers when they fail. My wife (OTS) went to the academy before me and didn't pass and it really messed her up for awhile. Most of the people in my class who didn't pass left OKC before even saying goodbye because it was so brutal for them and I totally understand that. I can't imagine investing all this time and effort into something, telling all my family and friends about an unbelievable career and then failing. Putting people in the academy who have the best chance to pass is best for everyone involved.
To your point, don't you think it would be even more devastating to spend 2 to 4 years studying ATC, only to go to the Academy and fail? There are certainly plenty of CTI grads who do fail, even if their pass rate is higher (which I'm not sure is true as I haven't seen stats). At least an OTS person generally has less to lose. They may have a degree or experience in another field. But a CTI grad likely spent several years pursuing a very specific degree for a very specific career that they are now ineligible for. That is a hard pill to swallow. Another frustrating thing would be to spend time and money pursuing a CTI degree and then aging out, or getting medically disqualified, etc.
 

Stewie

Member
Messages
22
Back in the CTI days they still had public bids from time to time as needed. I don’t see it any different as any other career. If I want to be a lawyer I can’t just skip law school.
True, but I feel there is more to lose for a CTI grad, because you can spend all that time and money pursuing a CTI degree only to fail at the academy, age out or get medically DQ'd. Once you fail at the academy, you usually won't be considered again. And once you turn 31, that's it. But you can be 60 years old and decide to go to law school. If you don't pass the bar exam, you can take it again.
 

32andBelow

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610
True, but I feel there is more to lose for a CTI grad, because you can spend all that time and money pursuing a CTI degree only to fail at the academy, age out or get medically DQ'd. Once you fail at the academy, you usually won't be considered again. And once you turn 31, that's it. But you can be 60 years old and decide to go to law school. If you don't pass the bar exam, you can take it again.
I dunno most of us got it as part of a larger aviation degree. I had a career with the airlines while I was waiting to get hired. If I would have failed then I would have stayed doing that.
 
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