Facility Downgrades / Upgrades

[CaptainObvious]

It was confirmed it’s impossible to count center traffic. I know we are about to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the moon landing, but come on man, why the fuck would you ever expect mankind to be able to count how many planes pass through a bunch of radar scopes in a building, technology ain’t limitless.

They sure can hammer you when the snitch logs your 4.9 mile bubble bouncer

 

[PushingTin]

Maybe before it takes over the world, AI will be able to solve the impossible conundrum known as ARTCC traffic count.

Its a modern day Voynich Manuscript!

 

[AlmostEligible]

Every center level 12. Problem solved lol

 

[PushingTin]

Every center level 12. Problem solved lol

...

 

[KiloZulu]

Meet in the middle at 11.

 

[PushingTin]

Meet in the middle at 11.

I think its a travesty that NATCA will not allow members to make different pay within the same building, but will allow hundreds of buildings to be on totally different pay scales governed by different rules; or in some cases none at all. All non Center controllers are de facto B scale. Bad!

 

[AlmostEligible]

I think its a travesty that NATCA will not allow members to make different pay within the same building, but will allow hundreds of buildings to be on totally different pay scales governed by different rules; or in some cases none at all. All non Center controllers are de facto B scale. Bad!

I was obviously just joking lol. I have no idea how centers are rated. The training manager at ZLA said they were upgraded from an 11 to level 12 in the early 2000s. Like 2003 or something. Thats the only time I've ever heard of a center going up or down. I know consolidated TRACONs have a huge difference in traffic volume & complexity area by area and it causes a "rif" in the building because they all get paid the same. I haven't heard of that being a thing at centers nearly as much though

 

[Move78]

I think its a travesty that NATCA will not allow members to make different pay within the same building, but will allow hundreds of buildings to be on totally different pay scales governed by different rules; or in some cases none at all. All non Center controllers are de facto B scale. Bad!

Who let Milo on the board?

 

[PushingTin]

Who let Milo on the board?

Milo?

 

[J8ke]

To change the subject, it's refreshing to see so many facilities being upgraded or returning back to previously held levels.
It definitely seems like traffic is trending up.

 

[SwampDonkey]

I was obviously just joking lol. I have no idea how centers are rated. The training manager at ZLA said they were upgraded from an 11 to level 12 in the early 2000s. Like 2003 or something. Thats the only time I've ever heard of a center going up or down. I know consolidated TRACONs have a huge difference in traffic volume & complexity area by area and it causes a "rif" in the building because they all get paid the same. I haven't heard of that being a thing at centers nearly as much though

That’s because there is not a current way to count traffic on ERAM. They are developing something but who knows when it will be ready. We have been in arbitration at ZHU for level 12 for over a decade. They are currently attempting to validate our traffic count based on traffic data from the mid 2000’s.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Rumor is they are looking at downgrading M98 to a 10, thus making them the only approach in the country at a lower level than their tower.

 

[CF]

does tcip rate tracons too? never actually tried to look one up.

 

[Homsar]

They do, but I don’t recall M98 being below the buffer, I know MSP was though. I haven’t looked at it in a few weeks so I could be misremembering.

 

[Oz3l0t]

They do, but I don’t recall M98 being below the buffer, I know MSP was though. I haven’t looked at it in a few weeks so I could be misremembering.

We have been below since November, the NVT has reached out to us requesting the stuff they need for the next meeting. MSP Tower is below, but only for two months, I'm assuming they are not much father behind us.

 

[PushingTin]

Downgrades are savaging the workforce! Its life changing for the bad. Meanwhile certain special facilities are untouchable? the Boston Tea Party was thrown over less serious shit than this. makes me MAD to hear about downgrrades!!!

M98 = canary in the coal mine. If MOST non giant big boy facilities slowly downgrade, the payscales i say are obsolete. REDO CONTRACT. Stop losing, start winning.

 

[Oz3l0t]

M98 = canary in the coal mine. If MOST non giant big boy facilities slowly downgrade

D21 is barely holding on as well, DTW is below the 11 buffer for four months.

 

[Stinger]

Downgrades all effective July 21, 2019:
TRI from a 6 to a 5.
LIT from an 8 to a 7.
ACY from a 7 to a 6.

 

[FoggyWindow]

I heard ZBW was on the cusp as well and that they finished behind one of the lvl 10 ARTCC's in traffic count. I have not seen numbers or anything to justify it.

That’s because there is not a current way to count traffic on ERAM. They are developing something but who knows when it will be ready. We have been in arbitration at ZHU for level 12 for over a decade. They are currently attempting to validate our traffic count based on traffic data from the mid 2000’s.

I think our case is gonna set the precedent for how ARTCC traffic is counted for everybody else.

 

[ehmeye]

I heard ZBW was on the cusp as well and that they finished behind one of the lvl 10 ARTCC's in traffic count. I have not seen numbers or anything to justify it.



I think our case is gonna set the precedent for how ARTCC traffic is counted for everybody else.

I don't think what happens with us will affect other facilities. They are building a tool to count ARTCC traffic (I believe its called ABACUS or something) and when it's implemented they're going to validate all ARTCC traffic with that, including ours. What they're doing with our grievance is running a validation counting our historic traffic with a specially designed system with HOST data.