How is Training Initiative going in your building?

[Stinger]

My personal opinion (& this is strictly center so I have no idea about tower training) is that you should train everyday. From slow to busy traffic. You get a set amount of hours. It's supposed to be a limit. Ideally, you certify in less hours than allotted. At the two centers I've been at...typically (unless you're a center CPC transfer) regardless of how good you are, you're going to use 80% on your first two and they'll consider actual minimums afterwards. If you're reaching the end of your hours and now you're trying to save hours for "busy" times only then in my opinion, you've already failed. You should have seen multiple slow, moderate, and busy sessions within your allotted time. So, if you need to save your hours then it's time to begin talking about extensions.

But again, that's just my personal opinion which is as valuable as an A side when you're trying to get leave. So, I do my eight, head to the gate, and see ya on the next shift.

OKC is moving to calendar days for training time as an option instead of a set amount of hours. Reasoning being is that it makes the trainees more self-driven and not want to waste a day of training with only one hour. On a day they're training, they should be getting more hours. Still TBD if it works and how it compares, but I like the idea.
I've seen it used in a TRB before...TRB recommendation was to give 30 days of additional training, and to count as a day of training he needed 3 hours of training that day.

 

[Spoony90]

OKC is moving to calendar days for training time as an option instead of a set amount of hours. Reasoning being is that it makes the trainees more self-driven and not want to waste a day of training with only one hour. On a day they're training, they should be getting more hours. Still TBD if it works and how it compares, but I like the idea.
I've seen it used in a TRB before...TRB recommendation was to give 30 days of additional training, and to count as a day of training he needed 3 hours of training that day.

Yeah but we both know there’s bigger problems than that

 

[Dolan]

Seasonal traffic is a thing in the small towers, just saying, not a reason to wash someone but definitely skeptical of someone who hasnt shown they can work a 70 hour.

So, like, pattern work? At Reno international? Why is it a big deal if someone is able to handle more or less pattern volume at a big carrier hub. Or is it just big departure or arrival pushes?

 

[CF]

So, like, pattern work? At Reno international? Why is it a big deal if someone is able to handle more or less pattern volume at a big carrier hub. Or is it just big departure or arrival pushes?

I think like half of Reno’s traffic is GA.

 

[Wizard]

So, like, pattern work? At Reno international? Why is it a big deal if someone is able to handle more or less pattern volume at a big carrier hub. Or is it just big departure or arrival pushes?

because places like reno don't believe in work under general supervision. It's work like you have been a cpc for years and are perfect to get certified.

 

[Termine]

Let's here from those awesome facilities that absolutely refuse to certify anyone until they see "summer traffic"! Because some old geezer who was hired in 1984 and is self appointed alpha dog of the facility said so. Bah humbug! Damn entitled kids these days. That guy worked "pre-911" traffic ----Gasp!--- unlike YOU. And all you would have washed out back then when the sky was thick with DC Niners and turboprops and the radar room tinted yellow and full of delicious cigarette smoke and if u wanted to check out you shotgunned PBRs in the parking lot w him and took his mistresses phone calls at the watch desk. Wash all trainees who don't kiss that guys ring out! For the good of the agency and old boys everywhere.

This mentality isn't present at my facility (which, like every other facility in the NAS, "used to be busy" fifteen years ago). I'm grateful for that.

The flip side I hear from people at level 6 and 7 that are spending IFR days “training” and not doing shit. What a waste of hours.

My personal opinion (& this is strictly center so I have no idea about tower training) is that you should train everyday. From slow to busy traffic.

Seasonal traffic is a thing in the small towers, just saying

Yep... low-level tower here. When I arrived over the summer it could get somewhat interesting. Now that we're having colder weather and more IFR days, a "busy" session is one or two departures at the same time as a cross-country flight inbound for a single T/G before returning home. I can train for three hours and talk to three planes total, and that's not unusual in the slightest.

Obviously I don't want to be stuck training for fourteen months while they make sure I can work summer traffic totally hands-off, but it is rather frustrating sitting on position without actually training.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

because places like reno don't believe in work under general supervision. It's work like you have been a cpc for years and are perfect to get certified.

Those places ruined the career for a lot people, luckily there are not many left and many have been consolidated.

 

[MJ]

OKC is moving to calendar days for training time as an option instead of a set amount of hours. Reasoning being is that it makes the trainees more self-driven and not want to waste a day of training with only one hour. On a day they're training, they should be getting more hours. Still TBD if it works and how it compares, but I like the idea.
I've seen it used in a TRB before...TRB recommendation was to give 30 days of additional training, and to count as a day of training he needed 3 hours of training that day.

Bad idea. This is how the Air Force does it. All your going to do is create more administrative work and be fighting over amount of days remaining and why x days shouldn't count etc...

Maybe something to the effect of a target time frame WITH the hours, that way the facility (IE management) has to justify if they miss the target, and not the trainee. Otherwise its just trying to push responsibility onto the trainee for something they have no authority over. It will cause new problems and solve none.

 

[STIMULATOR]

Bad idea. This is how the Air Force does it. All your going to do is create more administrative work and be fighting over amount of days remaining and why x days shouldn't count etc...

Maybe something to the effect of a target time frame WITH the hours, that way the facility (IE management) has to justify if they miss the target, and not the trainee. Otherwise its just trying to push responsibility onto the trainee for something they have no authority over. It will cause new problems and solve none.

I was just on a conference call (USAF) where they bragged about how the FAA is going to emulate the Air Force. The rumor floating around the AF is that they want to roll it out to the entire FAA. Personally, I think hours are more efficient than days. Or as you said, a hybrid model.

 

[Shikaka]

So, like, pattern work? At Reno international? Why is it a big deal if someone is able to handle more or less pattern volume at a big carrier hub. Or is it just big departure or arrival pushes?

It's the airport layout and the mix of "normal traffic". During busy season the mix of GA going to burning man and air carriers can cause issues. Additionally it's the area in general, weather off the sierras kills more people around here than wake does. But wake kills here too.

RNO is a good example of why we same some things just for court.

 

[caprisun]

It's the airport layout and the mix of "normal traffic". During busy season the mix of GA going to burning man and air carriers can cause issues. Additionally it's the area in general, weather off the sierras kills more people around here than wake does. But wake kills here too.

RNO is a good example of why we same some things just for court.

Like I’ve said before when you talk about washing everyone, seems like there is a real issue with the trainers/training at your facility.

 

[Shikaka]

One got washed today, RavenYZF-R6 knows who, not a trainer/facility issue. While my trainee tried sending someone into a mountain at 200 hours...both prior experience. We had one that couldn't get wake recat down, then tried driving a citation into the side of a 73. Same dude tried high fiving a Cherokee with a flight of F5s on the overhead...160 hours...

 

[sizziano]

One got washed today, RavenYZF-R6 knows who, not a trainer/facility issue. While my trainee tried sending someone into a mountain at 200 hours...both prior experience. We had one that couldn't get wake recat down, then tried driving a citation into the side of a 73. Same dude tried high fiving a Cherokee with a flight of F5s on the overhead...160 hours...

What's your PE to AG ratio and is there a noticeable skill difference?

 

[DankVectorz]

On those times I have to watch a trainee when it’s absolutely dead, I make sure to write on the training form “non-existent traffic. Complete waste of time but at least someone in Washington can show another hour of training.”

it hasn’t been around long enough yet though to see if it has any effect either way on certification or wash here.

 

[Shikaka]

What's your PE to AG ratio and is there a noticeable skill difference?

Over the last two years, 1 actual PE, 2 PE/NEST, 1 NEST and 5 AG. 1 NEST and 2 AG certified.

The actual PE resigned, the 2 NEST/PE are either having it rough or washing out, 1 NEST and 2 AG certified.

So I guess you could say PE 0

 

[CF]

One got washed today, RavenYZF-R6 knows who, not a trainer/facility issue. While my trainee tried sending someone into a mountain at 200 hours...both prior experience. We had one that couldn't get wake recat down, then tried driving a citation into the side of a 73. Same dude tried high fiving a Cherokee with a flight of F5s on the overhead...160 hours...

Sounds like one of our trainees. Can't scare the air carrier pilots.

 

[sizziano]

Over the last two years, 1 actual PE, 2 PE/NEST, 1 NEST and 5 AG. 1 NEST and 2 AG certified.

The actual PE resigned, the 2 NEST/PE are either having it rough or washing out, 1 NEST and 2 AG certified.

So I guess you could say PE 0

Wow

 

[Shikaka]

Sounds like one of our trainees. Can't scare the air carrier pilots.

After explaining how the UPS A300 is going to climb straight into the downwind dude on the crossing for the 12th time...you kinda give up...

 

[CaptainObvious]

One got washed today, RavenYZF-R6 knows who, not a trainer/facility issue. While my trainee tried sending someone into a mountain at 200 hours...both prior experience. We had one that couldn't get wake recat down, then tried driving a citation into the side of a 73. Same dude tried high fiving a Cherokee with a flight of F5s on the overhead...160 hours...

The sad thing is you push trainees to 160-200 hours at a low level tower.

 

[Mike Kilo]

After explaining how the UPS A300 is going to climb straight into the downwind dude on the crossing for the 12th time...you kinda give up...

That’s the last time they forget to issue UPS a left downwind departure!