Robert_Boucher
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It's not that uncommon at low level towers especially when you have seasonal traffic.
How is Training Initiative going in your building?
- Thread starter FightingIrish2012
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CaptainObvious
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Guess they better up the hours to compensate for the new training initiative then. 600? 800? More maybe.
The sad thing is we have to, the other thing is when people assume the 5 tower is easy because it's a 5.
Everyone who OJFs assumes it's gonna be a breeze until they start blowing through runways and can't separate the cross traffic with the parallel traffic.
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Just from looking at your layout and from working in a few towers, SNA is an example of what you guys could do with a little structure and a better training culture. Almost 4 times the ops, similar layout (less 1 rwy and shorter rwy's in general) with endless constraints from airspace, airport, noise abatement, terrain, etc and half the washout rate lol.
SNA is not even a close comparison. That's like saying why doesn't everyone have a SAN pass rate, they have a runway so it's pretty much the same...
Truthfully I'm more towards chalking it up to some people aren't just meant for ATC, we just get a disproportionate amount of those.
I understand what you're thinking, but read the examples I've been giving. Additionally, when your first transmission during a skill check after full hours, an extension, and 120 hour TRB extension, is to bust an active runway then your second transmission is to offer that runway to a departure...shits up...same dude a couple days prior tells a KC135 to hold short of a taxiway on the wrong side of the airport and almost busts another runway.
He was PE, nested from BOI, certified GC at BOI and they're pretty similar to us along with a higher pass rate. So either we just get shit people, we suck at training (even though as an OTS I certified) or volume doesnt equal complexity.
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GulfBravoPapa
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Every airport has its own unique challenges, hot spots, and difficulties. Unless you have worked somewhere it's probably best not to judge another facility's training program.
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I've heard that managment has some sort of performance based bonus attached to the new training initiative. Has anyone else heard about this?
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Bonus' based on certs or wash outs lol
Robert_Boucher
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It wouldn't surprise me if they had this. They get bonuses for keeping OT low and other things.
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PushingTin
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I notice a huge wave of especially these "direct hires" noobs, openly saying things like "I was at Nellis, this place will be easy for me". "I was the go to controller in local at my Air Force Base, we used to have 10+ in the pattern everyday". "I had a center rating working at _____, so this won't be hard".
They have a very entitled attitude and then plug in and suck. And you're like wow, how did this person even ever allegedly talk to aircraft anywhere? They're literally trying hard to kill people while telling you how gold they are in their 3rd month in the agency. Also about where their next* facility will be. Its almost a shocking level of arrogance, ignorance, and untactfulness. It makes me feel contempt for them and people hate them. So its understandable how a theoretically "less busy" facility could still wash out a lot of people. No one wants to put up w that shit. Send humble quiet hard working trainees who get in the books and are open to learning and don't think they be already arrived!
Wizard
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We have got 5 PE in the last year and none of them are having problems. Oddly enough it's some of the ERR transfers that have struggled.
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Ask GulfCharlie how many times I’ve said those exact words... It’s part of the culture on that side of the tracks, top to bottom.
CaptainObvious
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Let’s turn this into another all military or PE controllers blow argument ?
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As an Eagle Alumni myself I'm embarrassed at the attitudes of some of the CTI kids there. It's truly incredible to me and I don't know if the program itself is to blame or the student themselves, but it is definitely a black eye on a university I loved
no they don't. some are absolute jerks about the OT but no they don't bonuses based on that. and same applies to the training initiative. Also, the FACREP is supposed to be involved in this training initiative and have to submit a weekly report collaboratively with the ATM. so if the FACREP is allowing management to cram wasted hours on a trainees then they are just as complicit as the bad manager screwing over the trainees and trainers.
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We were told by a member of manmgent that meeting the daily OJT goal was a big factor in the FLM year performance apapraisal which is what determines the bonus. I didnt realize they even got bonuses.
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PushingTin
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I never thought I'd turn into one of "those guys", but it makes me literally hate them. Its so brazen and offensive.
To anyone saying things like "eye roll, let's have another thread about how terrible _________ and such is...". You obviously have no frame of reference on what we speak of, or you wouldn't make light of it. There is a large portion of these PE guys who are total assholes and hell on earth to train. In a way it has actually given the trainers a lot of anxiety. I have had so many people in private in hushed tones say things like. "Hey have u ever trained ____ and so?" And its like... Yeah, I know, It's not you don't worry. To the point where the trainers are discouraged from even trying because its such a fight to get them to do anything proper and acknowledge any mistake without subtle little arguing and resistance.
When trainers stop fucking w you, its over. You just don't know it yet. You can go back to the Air Force and be an all star. Where they must have no rules or safety, only wild cowboys.
CaptainObvious
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Oh shut up. At least reference the person you’re trying to call out on the sly you arrogant clown. I’ve been to several facilities, seen good and bad prior experience, good and bad CTI, good and bad OTS. Pot meet kettle coming from you who spouts all kinds of inane arrogant bullshit and acts like gods gift to ATC.
Phillyman2633
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