Intersecting RWY separation

DL0509

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232
There was a R&I that came out last year that said if the taxiway is prior to the RWY intersection you must wait til the aircraft is committed to turning on the taxiway before you can launch aircraft 2. IDK how that plays if you get a hold short but I'm pretty sure that was guidance that came out last year could be wrong tho.
 

mrobs15

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My understanding has always been that you don't have what you need unless you get a hold short read back from a pilot. It doesn't matter if its a runway or a taxiway that is prior to that runway but you need something. Telling the pilot to turn before the runway and getting that read back isn't enough and if you are doing it that way then you need to have them committed in the turn before letting the other departure go.

I always thought it was weird that getting them to say they will turn isn't as good as a hold short but idk maybe I'm wrong there.
 

Stinger

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Staff member
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My understanding has always been that you don't have what you need unless you get a hold short read back from a pilot. It doesn't matter if its a runway or a taxiway that is prior to that runway but you need something. Telling the pilot to turn before the runway and getting that read back isn't enough and if you are doing it that way then you need to have them committed in the turn before letting the other departure go.

I always thought it was weird that getting them to say they will turn isn't as good as a hold short but idk maybe I'm wrong there.
You understand it correctly.
Runway incursions and surface events are always at the top of the FAAs concerns. They've taken that section of the 7110's wording extremely literally, and haven't wiggled on it.
 

KnockKnock

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116
There isn't hold short markings where taxiways intersect each other either. We issue hold shorts of those all the time.
The .65 definition of clear runway covers this. Basically, if you can see them short, they're short.
 

TimShady

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FAA
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Facility
MDW Midway Tower
There was an elms at some point coving this exact scenario with a real life situation that happened, but I can’t remember specifics. As others have said you need either a hold short instruction, which can’t be given until aircraft has completed landing roll or the aircraft commits to exiting (starts turning off). Reading back where to exit isn’t good enough.

At my place at least it’s not uncommon to tell a pilot where to exit and they read it back and roll right past it anyway, at what looks to me like taxi speed. If a pilot isn’t familiar they may read back the exiting instructions while still looking for the exit you gave and miss it. If this happens while another aircraft is rolling down an intersecting runway you have a real problem, while an aircraft taxiing across downfield is much less of a safety issue as either one or the other could stop.
 

GMX

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Messages
90
I make sure they read back hold short of the crossing runway and exit at some taxiway even if it thousands of feet from the other runway. I want that hold short of the other runway on tape with no room for questions.
 
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