Jan 2026

That inquiry to grant 12 pay on request is not valid.
🤦🏼‍♂️
You’re mistaken, I have nothing to do with anyone’s career
You’re an NCEPT rep but okay.
It’s a good thing I’m a nobody because if it were up to me I’d pull out of the release policy entirely. I’m sure most of you would too. The union won’t do that because right now there’s X amount of people that can’t get picked up and if they just let the agency exercise their own rights for this then that number X would increase. So it’d be a net negative. Even though the message boards fail to understand that. But personally I think the bargaining unit has become its own worse enemy. So without NCEPT you’d have even more poor bastards stuck in the misery of their own regret but atleast they wouldn’t screw up the blame anymore.
Hard to swallow pills: There was more movement before NCEPT. Maybe not the first few years after its creation but we’re definitely there now. Future NCEPT selection numbers will support this (thanks to CRWG) and you will not convince me otherwise until I see some kind of “number Xs” that support otherwise.
They always said it was going to get phased in. They did it over a year and the agency wanted to do it day 1.
You’re acting as if CRWG is some kind of win and also acting like it is the agency’s doing and not NATCA’s in any capacity. So I’m really not seeing the validity in any of your retort.
 
🤦🏼‍♂️

You’re an NCEPT rep but okay.
What is it you think these people do
Hard to swallow pills: There was more movement before NCEPT.
This is provably untrue
Maybe not the first few years after its creation but we’re definitely there now. Future NCEPT selection numbers will support this (thanks to CRWG) and you will not convince me otherwise until I see some kind of “number Xs” that support otherwise.
I have no clue what the future of ERRs looks like. There’s no “shall” in A42 anywhere so it’ll be a fight. Every single inch has been a constant fight for the last 7 years.
You’re acting as if CRWG is some kind of win and also acting like it is the agency’s doing and not NATCA’s in any capacity. So I’m really not seeing the validity in any of your retort.
They did it together with ATO management. It was the only way to increase facility staffing because the Finance department refused to do it otherwise. Ops said we need X and Finance said I don’t give a fuck what you think. So that’s why we lobbied to have it codified into law. So now Ops says we need X and I don’t give a fuck what Finance thinks.
 
What is it you think these people do
Umm analyze ERR data and ensure compliance of the NCEPT MOUs which 100% has to do with people’s career
This is provably untrue
You should provably show us why
I have no clue what the future of ERRs looks like.
Classic cop out
They did it together with ATO management. It was the only way to increase facility staffing because the Finance department refused to do it otherwise. Ops said we need X and Finance said I don’t give a fuck what you think. So that’s why we lobbied to have it codified into law. So now Ops says we need X and I don’t give a fuck what Finance thinks.
That’s cool and all but every bit of 0% of that means NATCA had to agree to it. That’s the problem with NATCA. Y'all think that finance playing hardball was somehow your problem instead of the agency’s and somehow believe that they care about an alleged long term solution to a long term problem that they manufactured. When in fact they don’t. If they don’t increase academy capacity for OTS hires, movement will not get better. There are too many retirements alone in the next 5-10 years.
 
The number of people moving is a poor indicator of the health of the transfer system.
The union doesn’t care because they think they *might* have solved this problem 50 years from now.

It’s almost like someone upon high decided they don’t want to incentivize training failures.
It’s the unions job to protect training failures, not sign their careers away one MOU at a time. They are still 2152s and dues paying members bud…

Well they get 5 of each group they qualify for so the lists are still 30-40 facilities. But NEST is supposed to be there to save your job not get you your pick of the whole NAS.
Nobody was being offered the whole NAS and if NEST is to save your job then the union should be there to ensure the best pay and working conditions possible. Just because something is in an SOP doesn’t mean the union can’t touch it.

Even if people were getting huge NEST lists, who is the union to be like, “oh yeah they don’t need all those facilities. Give them a handful or just send them back where they came from.” The fuck is wrong with you bro? You clearly do not understand what labor unions are about because you should be ecstatic that people who wash still get good opportunities. Instead you sound like you’re mumbling from the agency’s back pocket.
 
The number of people moving is a poor indicator of the health of the transfer system.
A terrible indicator. So bad in fact it should not be a part of the conversation in any way.

Nobody was being offered the whole NAS and if NEST is to save your job then the union should be there to ensure the best pay and working conditions possible.
Yes they were.
Just because something is in an SOP doesn’t mean the union can’t touch it.

Even if people were getting huge NEST lists, who is the union to be like, “oh yeah they don’t need all those facilities. Give them a handful or just send them back where they came from.” The fuck is wrong with you bro? You clearly do not understand what labor unions are about because you should be ecstatic that people who wash still get good opportunities. Instead you sound like you’re mumbling from the agency’s back pocket.
I don’t have a say in any of this but it was very clear the membership was unhappy with being constantly leapfrogged by washouts. So take it up with your fellow controllers.

It’s the unions job to protect training failures, not sign their careers away one MOU at a time. They are still 2152s and dues paying members bud…
If it weren’t for the union they would just get fired. And there’s tons of complaining about bad trainees getting 1000 chances and all of that is blamed on the union.

Umm analyze ERR data and ensure compliance of the NCEPT MOUs which 100% has to do with people’s career
They don’t set policy.
You should provably show us why
Somebody has the data idk who.
Classic cop out
You’d rather people bullshit you and pretend to know the future? They’re currently resetting the program in some way.
That’s cool and all but every bit of 0% of that means NATCA had to agree to it. That’s the problem with NATCA. Y'all think that finance playing hardball was somehow your problem instead of the agency’s and somehow believe that they care about an alleged long term solution to a long term problem that they manufactured. When in fact they don’t. If they don’t increase academy capacity for OTS hires, movement will not get better. There are too many retirements alone in the next 5-10 years.
All of the agency’s problems are your problems. The controllers are the first to eat it. All of the agency’s failures will be passed onto the BU. If the union doesn’t help the agency fix staffing then it won’t get fixed and the controllers will pay for it.
 
Yes they were.
No they weren’t.
I don’t have a say in any of this but it was very clear the membership was unhappy with being constantly leapfrogged by washouts. So take it up with your fellow controllers.
Yeah and then you dipshits [NATCA] gets involved and now the membership is getting leapfrogged by OTS new hires instead. At least a given AT washout could’ve been a prior experience hire who has some prowess to certify somewhere and could be useful to the NAS. You act like sending 18 year olds with zero experience to 8s and 9s over stuck CPCs somehow puts us all in a better place. Which is a bullshit take in and of itself from the union. This energy from you and other reps sitting at your level 12 facilities is not the flex you think it is, especially since NATCA flat out refuses to negotiate for better pay. Just saying after you expressed your concerns about what “the membership” thinks.

They don’t set policy.
I didn’t say NCEPT reps set policy. You claimed they aren’t involved “at all” with anyone’s career and I explained why that is incorrect.
Somebody has the data idk who.
So in other words “trust me bro”
You’d rather people bullshit you and pretend to know the future? They’re currently resetting the program in some way.
Who’s bullshitting? You’re telling me that NCEPT quarterly selections aren’t going to be absolutely abysmal now thanks to the release policy pursuant to CRWG? They certainly are resetting the program, in a manner that has every controller stuck for most or all of their career. All because you pompous retards flock to the hill each May and think you know wtf you’re doing.
All of the agency’s problems are your problems. The controllers are the first to eat it. All of the agency’s failures will be passed onto the BU. If the union doesn’t help the agency fix staffing then it won’t get fixed and the controllers will pay for it.
You still have not provided one single point about how “the old system” was not in fact better than the bullshit we have now. You’re “there’s more movement under NCEPT” argument is null and void until selections are where they were and NCEPT is not holistically “better” until it fosters actual movement and not just for those at facilities with good staffing. The old system cared about neither and it worked provided you networked a bit and weren’t a shitbag.

A terrible indicator. So bad in fact it should not be a part of the conversation in any way.
Yet you flip a switch and bitch like you do about training failures “being offered the entire NAS.” I know this particular comment was in reply to someone else, but I’m genuinely confused as to what kind of an argument you’re trying to articulate by saying this?
 
I didn’t say NCEPT reps set policy. You claimed they aren’t involved “at all” with anyone’s career and I explained why that is incorrect.
No you blamed your professional failures on your so called cucks like me. And yet I make none of these decisions.
So in other words “trust me bro”
Or don’t idc
Who’s bullshitting? You’re telling me that NCEPT quarterly selections aren’t going to be absolutely abysmal now thanks to the release policy pursuant to CRWG?
Didn’t say that either. But they weren’t as it was phased in for the first year
They certainly are resetting the program, in a manner that has every controller stuck for most or all of their career.
I’d assume the agency’s introduction of a contractor will be a massive setback towards whatever you’re trying to get out of this. Republicans are disgusting and viscous towards labor and without unions so is the private sector. So I’m sure day 1 was “what in the fuck are you guys doing letting all these people transfer?”
All because you pompous retards flock to the hill each May and think you know wtf you’re doing.
I’ve never been to NIW but it sounds like you should tell your RVP that you don’t want more staffing and you’re mad they asked congress for it.
You still have not provided one single point about how “the old system” was not in fact better than the bullshit we have now.
Dont know why you can’t read English but I never said that. Just that it’s moved more.
You’re “there’s more movement under NCEPT” argument is null and void until selections are where they were and NCEPT is not holistically “better” until it fosters actual movement and not just for those at facilities with good staffing.
Try telling agency you think a better plan for what you consider to be ‘actual movement’ means pulling more people out of staffing triggers. Good luck.
The old system cared about neither and it worked provided you networked a bit and weren’t a shitbag.
Shitbags levy that same complaint against ‘good ol boy NCEPT’

Yeah and then you dipshits [NATCA] gets involved and now the membership is getting leapfrogged by OTS new hires instead.
The BU chose to skip the 8-9s. The one pick at a time model that’s been in place for years reduced the effectiveness of spamming the top of the priority list. Because you need to be ranked at the top. So the 8-9s have been available in the first round for years.
At least a given AT washout could’ve been a prior experience hire who has some prowess to certify somewhere and could be useful to the NAS.
The union has successfully fought to retain cpc it training failures for years. Even after multiple washouts
You act like sending 18 year olds with zero experience to 8s and 9s over stuck CPCs somehow puts us all in a better place.
Well they represent the controllers at the 8-9s as well and not enough people were applying.

Which is a bullshit take in and of itself from the union. This energy from you and other reps sitting at your level 12 facilities is not the flex you think it is, especially since NATCA flat out refuses to negotiate for better pay. Just saying after you expressed your concerns about what “the membership” thinks.
You sound like a spurned washout. Why don’t you get your head out of your ass and certify and you won’t have to stress about exploiting your failures to beat the cpc to where you both wanna go.
 
They should just make en route and terminal separate jobs. It’s crazy hearing you tower ppl spin around going from a 6 to an 8 and then others saying you aren’t good enough to go to an 8! While everyone else just grows straight to a 10-12 and makes more their whole career
 
They should just make en route and terminal separate jobs. It’s crazy hearing you tower ppl spin around going from a 6 to an 8 and then others saying you aren’t good enough to go to an 8! While everyone else just grows straight to a 10-12 and makes more their whole career
Agreed. Two different jobs with two different skill sets.

One of the retards on the NATCA national boards wants to make upgrade tracks happen too. For instance a terminal level 4 can only go to a terminal level 7 max. Making the time an ideal NCEPT candidate would have to work to get to 12 pay-scale a 3-4 step process. Meanwhile OTS hires get placed directly to level 12s. How is that fair and something a labor union should be advocating for?

The pay bands should be more in line. The difference between being enroute vs tower and tower/tracon is wild. Enroute mfers can max TSP after D2 and make the same amount as a CPC at a low level, but the low level shit holes will have to make astronomical sacrifices to contribute the same amount towards their future. How about that brothers?
 
Agreed. Two different jobs with two different skill sets.

One of the retards on the NATCA national boards wants to make upgrade tracks happen too. For instance a terminal level 4 can only go to a terminal level 7 max. Making the time an ideal NCEPT candidate would have to work to get to 12 pay-scale a 3-4 step process. Meanwhile OTS hires get placed directly to level 12s. How is that fair and something a labor union should be advocating for?

The pay bands should be more in line. The difference between being enroute vs tower and tower/tracon is wild. Enroute mfers can max TSP after D2 and make the same amount as a CPC at a low level, but the low level shit holes will have to make astronomical sacrifices to contribute the same amount towards their future. How about that brothers?
You should def keep your steps too. Like if you are level 5 year 4 and go to a level 7 you should make what a level 7 year 4 makes.

Now if some tower person makes it to a center they make the same as someone who just started. It makes no sense.
 
Agreed. Two different jobs with two different skill sets.

One of the retards on the NATCA national boards wants to make upgrade tracks happen too. For instance a terminal level 4 can only go to a terminal level 7 max. Making the time an ideal NCEPT candidate would have to work to get to 12 pay-scale a 3-4 step process. Meanwhile OTS hires get placed directly to level 12s. How is that fair and something a labor union should be advocating for?

The pay bands should be more in line. The difference between being enroute vs tower and tower/tracon is wild. Enroute mfers can max TSP after D2 and make the same amount as a CPC at a low level, but the low level shit holes will have to make astronomical sacrifices to contribute the same amount towards their future. How about that brothers?
There’s so much that’s fucked up with facility levels and placement.

Like how a prior exp new hire will get offered 7s and below, certify at a 5, quit to seek reinstatement and only be offered 5s and below after a year… Yet same person (granted they aren’t at one of the hundreds of shithole facilities with shit staffing) can ERR straight to a 12 and OTS hires with absolutely no experience (besides a good sim score) can go straight to 8s and 9s (or 10-12s if en route). NATCA should be all over this, but they don’t care about the overworked and underpaid CPCs that show up and keep the NAS held together with tape every single day.

Agreed. Two different jobs with two different skill sets.

One of the retards on the NATCA national boards wants to make upgrade tracks happen too. For instance a terminal level 4 can only go to a terminal level 7 max. Making the time an ideal NCEPT candidate would have to work to get to 12 pay-scale a 3-4 step process. Meanwhile OTS hires get placed directly to level 12s. How is that fair and something a labor union should be advocating for?

The pay bands should be more in line. The difference between being enroute vs tower and tower/tracon is wild. Enroute mfers can max TSP after D2 and make the same amount as a CPC at a low level, but the low level shit holes will have to make astronomical sacrifices to contribute the same amount towards their future. How about that brothers?
This would actually work well for the NAS, granted the agency stops sending OTS new hires to high level facilities in conjunction with it.
 
Last edited:
Terminal washouts should get the option to NEST into Enroute facilities as well, two completely different methods of working planes that people might be subjective to.

I've seen a lot of tower trainees wash because they couldn't operate in a short term environment but they would have probably been good in a longer and more procedural one.
 
Terminal washouts should get the option to NEST into Enroute facilities as well, two completely different methods of working planes that people might be subjective to.

I've seen a lot of tower trainees wash because they couldn't operate in a short term environment but they would have probably been good in a longer and more procedural one.
Or you know, develop some sort of test/screen that assesses this before someone chooses their first facility?? It shouldn't require flunking OJT to realize someone is better suited for one type of work or another. Also, this idea sucks. We see low level tower checkouts struggle, and now we're also going to get the failures? 10/10 times I'd take an AG that at least went through the enroute track at OKC and passed the enroute eval vs. terminal AG that bombed at their first facility.
 
Last edited:
Or you know, develop some sort of test/screen that assesses this before someone chooses their first facility?? It shouldn't require flunking OJT to realize someone is better suited for one type of work or another. Also, this idea sucks. We see low level tower checkouts struggle, and now we're also going to get the failures? 10/10 times I'd take an AG that at least went through the enroute track at OKC and passed the enroute eval vs. terminal AG that bombed at their first facility.
The same goes the other way, plenty of en route washout struggle at towers.

Lets all admit the only way is the high level TRACON way.
 
Or you know, develop some sort of test/screen that assesses this before someone chooses their first facility?? It shouldn't require flunking OJT to realize someone is better suited for one type of work or another. Also, this idea sucks. We see low level tower checkouts struggle, and now we're also going to get the failures? 10/10 times I'd take an AG that at least went through the enroute track at OKC and passed the enroute eval vs. terminal AG that bombed at their first facility.
Well I agree, but until the FAA gets their head out of their ass and assesses AGs appropriately to best employ their skills why is that the AG’s fault?

Can we start the may thread for people to complain about it not happening
Fr, I miss when Hope kept the NCEPT and AG threads up to date. Dude was on it.
 
Back
Top Bottom