N90 forced move

[MMKAY2039]

Do you really not see how you look right now? You really said this bullshit 👇🏻 yet you hardship transferred…

You think I did a hardship to get somewhere because I didn't want to be where I was? That hardship benefit is a fantastic benefit and I would support anyone's decision to use it if they had a genuine reason. We all know people who have abused that unfortunately.

Here is the thing though, if the FAA told me tomorrow that my new job location is now in a place where I would have to move to, I would either move or get a new job. Things like that happen in the private sector all the time. Too many newbies in the agency need to realize that at the end of the day, the FAA is going to fill the needs of the FAA. If your facility were to be contracted out for instance, they would give you an option for some facilities that they have needs for but if you choose not to go there, well then have a wonderful life. This idea that the FAA owes you a break is ridiculous to me.

 

[SquawkHijack]

You think I did a hardship to get somewhere because I didn't want to be where I was? . . .

This idea that the FAA owes you a break is ridiculous to me.

You don’t see any kind of conflict between these two statements?

Are you about the agency giving people breaks or are you all or nothing for “go where they need you to go or quit?”

 

[MMKAY2039]

You don’t see any kind of conflict between these two statements?

Are you about the agency giving people breaks or are you all or nothing for “go where they need you to go or quit?”

Hardship is a benefit that is offered. By all means use the benefits. If the agency would have denied my request, I still needed to move my kid away from where we lived. That was a fact and wasn't going to change regardless of whether the hardship got approved or not. I'm glad that there was a job for me somewhere but II still had to move on my own dime, I lost out on one contractual raise and I had to re-enter training. You act like it was a free pass for me.

 

[LEAD004]

You think I did a hardship to get somewhere because I didn't want to be where I was? That hardship benefit is a fantastic benefit and I would support anyone's decision to use it if they had a genuine reason. We all know people who have abused that unfortunately.

Here is the thing though, if the FAA told me tomorrow that my new job location is now in a place where I would have to move to, I would either move or get a new job. Things like that happen in the private sector all the time. Too many newbies in the agency need to realize that at the end of the day, the FAA is going to fill the needs of the FAA. If your facility were to be contracted out for instance, they would give you an option for some facilities that they have needs for but if you choose not to go there, well then have a wonderful life. This idea that the FAA owes you a break is ridiculous to me.

But you’re a part of a union (if you are a union member). You pay dues for a reason. You were able to use A99 for a reason. You having this stance is confusing because you’re essentially having your cake and eating it too. You know? Being in a union and having a contract where an employer can’t just fuck over its employees is the entire point of being apart of a union. You’re just ok with them doing that? You’re just saying “well, it was fine while it lasted. Guess I better go fuck myself” is just dumb.

 

[MMKAY2039]

But you’re a part of a union (if you are a union member). You pay dues for a reason. You were able to use A99 for a reason. You having this stance is confusing because you’re essentially having your cake and eating it too. You know? Being in a union and having a contract where an employer can’t just fuck over its employees is the entire point of being apart of a union. You’re just ok with them doing that? You’re just saying “well, it was fine while it lasted. Guess I better go fuck myself” is just dumb.

Oh you assume I'm in the union? Lol Yeah I stopped giving them my money this year. Almost 12 years of that and that was way too long. NATCA is a joke in my opinion. I can spend my $72 a paycheck better than they can. It's funny when people apply to the FAA and then NATCA comes running asking for your $$$ and if you're in a low level facility, it doesn't seem like they care about you. NATCA had a big chance to make a big impact with pay and a number of other issues with this administration and they failed.

 

[Nothanks]

NATCA had a big chance to make a big impact with pay and a number of other issues with this administration and they failed.

Stop spewing misinformation. Where exactly was this chance you speak of ?

 

[KP-ATC]

Stop spewing misinformation. Where exactly was this chance you speak of ?

NATCA national raved about Biden being the most labor friendly administration. To what end? What did we get?

 

[Nothanks]

NATCA national raved about Biden being the most labor friendly administration. To what end? What did we get?

Biden and his campaign said that. Where was the chance they had ?

 

[Gauff]

Biden and his campaign said that. Where was the chance they had ?

We didn't get a chance because they were so scared of Trump winning the election they forgot what would happen if he lost and was eligible for this current election, so they extended it so they would be in a position to fuck over the membership again with yet another extension 🥳

 

[MMKAY2039]

Stop spewing misinformation. Where exactly was this chance you speak of ?

A friendly administration to the agenda of NATCA and they didn't accomplish anything. They just renewed the contract.

 

[Nothanks]

A friendly administration to the agenda of NATCA and they didn't accomplish anything. They just renewed the contract.

When did we renew ? And who renewed it ?

We didn't get a chance because they were so scared of Trump winning the election they forgot what would happen if he lost and was eligible for this current election, so they extended it so they would be in a position to fuck over the membership again with yet another extension 🥳

People forgot Covid, massively reduced flights, 5/10 schedules, massive layoffs, and almost zero inflation at the time. All while you have an agency that wouldn’t have opened the contract anyways. Sounds like a great time to try and get more money.

You guys are turds sometimes. Half of you are angry nonmembers on your breaks looking for a place to vent.

 

[Gauff]

People forgot Covid, massively reduced flights, 5/10 schedules, massive layoffs, and almost zero inflation at the time. All while you have an agency that wouldn’t have opened the contract anyways. Sounds like a great time to try and get more money.

You guys are turds sometimes. Half of you are angry nonmembers on your breaks looking for a place to vent.

You definitely aren't wrong on that, we weren't in nearly the same situation with leverage for bargaining as now. We're in a much better spot to be bargaining and getting a raise and improving working conditions without giving up much if anything, so the past extension kinda worked in our favor to a way.

But it's pointless since they're gonna waste all the leverage we currently have in a strong economy to extend again and have to worry about who's running for president in another 4 years

 

[SquawkHijack]

Hardship is a benefit that is offered. By all means use the benefits. If the agency would have denied my request, I still needed to move my kid away from where we lived. That was a fact and wasn't going to change regardless of whether the hardship got approved or not. I'm glad that there was a job for me somewhere but II still had to move on my own dime, I lost out on one contractual raise and I had to re-enter training. You act like it was a free pass for me.

I never said any part of your hardship transfer was a free pass for anything. I do think the agency cut you a break to help you with your hardship, be it a contractual benefit or not, it is subject to agency approval. With that sentiment and the original comment you went into hardass mode replying to in mind, why should N90 folks be forced to move against their will? You even said, “you go where the agency needs you or quit” and they’ve all previously signed an FOL for that duty station once before thus, going where the agency needed them and some of them will even have to enter training again if sent to Philly. I would argue those controllers aren’t even asking for a break, they’re just asking to be left alone.

The fact that you hold such a rigid stance with the agency on this and feel no empathy for those folks under the forcible 804 knife at N90 is pretty callous and pathetic if I’m being honest.

You sound like some cantankerously miserable senior enlisted person in the military that “answered the call” too much and doesn’t have an understanding of when your superiors may have gotten the best of you.

EDIT: so that my stance on this whole thing to you is clear, this N90 thing is purely an agency problem in my opinion. They want a particular area moved to Philly, they can ASK for volunteers and figure the rest of the associated pitfalls the fuck out on their own via other means, not uproot people from where they’d more rather be, otherwise they too would’ve volunteered to go.

 

[RegisteredUser]

No updates on national emails.

FAA feeding lies to Media articles about NY area delays that are objectively not caused by N90 and conflating it in the same article by offering the solution to it being how controllers are being moved to Philly.

No one's correcting them.

An injury to one is an injury to all.

Hopefully we remember all we did for our brothers when the FAA comes for the next facility.



- Judge Learned Hand

"In solidarity"

Natca is complicit.

Stop spewing misinformation. Where exactly was this chance you speak of ?

“Misinformation” aka the term used when you have no legitimate argument.

 

[MMKAY2039]

I never said any part of your hardship transfer was a free pass for anything. I do think the agency cut you a break to help you with your hardship, be it a contractual benefit or not, it is subject to agency approval. With that sentiment and the original comment you went into hardass mode replying to in mind, why should N90 folks be forced to move against their will? You even said, “you go where the agency needs you or quit” and they’ve all previously signed an FOL for that duty station once before thus, going where the agency needed them and some of them will even have to enter training again if sent to Philly. I would argue those controllers aren’t even asking for a break, they’re just asking to be left alone.

The fact that you hold such a rigid stance with the agency on this and feel no empathy for those folks under the forcible 804 knife at N90 is pretty callous and pathetic if I’m being honest.

You sound like some cantankerously miserable senior enlisted person in the military that “answered the call” too much and doesn’t have an understanding of when your superiors may have gotten the best of you.

EDIT: so that my stance on this whole thing to you is clear, this N90 thing is purely an agency problem in my opinion. They want a particular area moved to Philly, they can ASK for volunteers and figure the rest of the associated pitfalls the fuck out on their own via other means, not uproot people from where they’d more rather be, otherwise they too would’ve volunteered to go.

I didn't say it's not a crappy situation. Of course the agency will give move money and compensate. Yes the agency had a need there at one point but the need has changed. It's like when someone gets laid off in the private sector or a pilot gets furloughed after spending 10 years with an airline. Man that sucks, plain and simple but thats life. That's just the world we live in. Nobody ever said it was fair.

As far as the agency cutting me a break, if that's how you see it then thats fine. They offer a benefit for anyone to move to a location that they have a need for as long as the reason falls within the guidelines they have set up. I don't feel like I received any special treatment anymore than someone else who has received a hardship. I know people who kept submitting requests and after the 4th try they got it approved and it was a BS reason. That's cutting someone a break imo.

 

[Nothanks]

You definitely aren't wrong on that, we weren't in nearly the same situation with leverage for bargaining as now. We're in a much better spot to be bargaining and getting a raise and improving working conditions without giving up much if anything, so the past extension kinda worked in our favor to a way.

But it's pointless since they're gonna waste all the leverage we currently have in a strong economy to extend again and have to worry about who's running for president in another 4 years

I’m not in favor of extending in any fashion