N90 (Newark Area) to PHL FOIA's

[GulfCharlie]

Cheers to the people who brought this to my attention and the guy who did all the leg work on this.

https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2022-06/DOT Litigation News - Spring 2022.pdf

(pages 24-25)

This is a legal case where a member of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association (NATCA) has filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit against the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) for allegedly violating his right to a timely determination of his FOIA appeal and for improperly claiming exemptions to justify redactions in records that were released. The plaintiff, an air traffic controller, filed a FOIA request seeking certain records of communications or memorandums of understanding (MOU) between FAA and NATCA regarding the transfer of the Newark International Airport area from New York to Philadelphia.

FAA released some records in response to the request, but the plaintiff felt they were not sufficient. He requested additional records, which FAA treated as a new request. FAA then released 58 pages of records, most of which were redacted based on FOIA Exemptions 2, 4, and 6. The plaintiff appealed the withholdings, claiming that FAA improperly relied on Exemption 2 and erroneously applied Exemption 4. FAA confirmed receipt of the appeal but did not respond within the 20-day time frame, which prompted the plaintiff to file a lawsuit in federal court. The court granted FAA's motion for an extension to file its answer, which was filed on April 22.

One of the documents obtained under FOIA is below and another attached.












​

There are more things to upload (double checking somethings including the original FOIA document) but this should be sufficient enough to start a discussion.

 

[GulfCharlie]

Attached are two FOIA's and some updates as of 7 December 2022:

 

[CaptainObvious]

So you’re the reason why it told me the website was down just a minute ago

 

[Soul_Controller]

New York's been soft ever since Snoop came through and crushed them buildings

 

[MikeDelta]

Well this is going to be spicy.

 

[GulfCharlie]

Well this is going to be spicy.

Indeed, the goal though is foster discussion about the whole movement and NATCA dealing in “bad faith.” For instance 2 NATCA national officers, the chief of staff, and 3 attorneys involved with the proposals and not anyone from N90? Seems quite strange to me… but then again I’m no Union big wig.

 

[slater]

 

[Dontbotherme]

Sounds like NATCA should no longer be the sole representative group for BUEs…

 

[GulfCharlie]

I encourage everyone to take sometime and read these for yourself, I’ll post more in a bit but please do not just rely on my words

 

[Dontbotherme]

So what are the lump sum payments and when do they vest? Any group unwilling to provide proposals in writing is not acting in its members best interest.

 

[GulfCharlie]

So what are the lump sum payments and when do they vest? Any group unwilling to provide proposals in writing is not acting in its members best interest.

That and not involving the N90 rep…

 

[Phillytroll69]

I've got some assumptions drawn so feel free to correct me if I wrong-
1-This person is suing the FAA or the union? (somewhere else) about the n90-phl move. Are these foia just a part of that.
2-They feel like union didn't act in their best interest, and there's like two other people they mention that would have direct harm.
3-this is all some dude on break working on this? Good for them
4-The person is assuming natca went against the interests of members BUT until we know what the proposal was (weren't there rumors about per diem, raises, etc?) It'll be difficult to say.

So far N90 has fought and averages ~3 hour time on position, 5k trainee bonus, current ojti bonus was the same as they were already getting, special okc training program for their facility, free car washes.

Whoever at n90 has this level of resentment towards the union/FAA keep fighting you've basically shutdown the phl move.

Also was it Paul and Trish as the consultants I'm curious how'd they weigh in

 

[GulfCharlie]

I've got some assumptions drawn so feel free to correct me if I wrong-
1-This person is suing the FAA or the union? (somewhere else) about the n90-phl move. Are these foia just a part of that.
2-They feel like union didn't act in their best interest, and there's like two other people they mention that would have direct harm.
3-this is all some dude on break working on this? Good for them
4-The person is assuming natca went against the interests of members BUT until we know what the proposal was (weren't there rumors about per diem, raises, etc?) It'll be difficult to say.

So far N90 has fought and averages ~3 hour time on position, 5k trainee bonus, current ojti bonus was the same as they were already getting, special okc training program for their facility, free car washes.

Whoever at n90 has this level of resentment towards the union/FAA keep fighting you've basically shutdown the phl move.

Also was it Paul and Trish as the consultants I'm curious how'd they weigh in

Revealing the proposal would "harm NATCA's commercial interests" causing "irreversible harm," they cited the negotiations between the FAA (under Marion Blakely) and NATCA (under John Carr) as precedent.

 

[Spaceforce]

“This suggests NATCA was bargaining the unlawful transfer of the Newark area to Philadelphia in exchange for something else while deliberately excluding N90 NATCA representatives from those negotiations and therefore committing unfair labor practices against the bargaining unit employees of N90.”

”temporarily left the Union to aid the FAA.”

Whoever this is, well done getting a lawyer.

 

[Phillytroll69]

Revealing the proposal would "harm NATCA's commercial interests" causing "irreversible harm," they cited the negotiations between the FAA (under Marion Blakely) and NATCA (under John Carr) as precedent.

Ahh I didn't get that in the initial read-through. That means something was said or negotiated that's pretty bad

 

[I.DO.VEHCTAHS]

I've got some assumptions drawn so feel free to correct me if I wrong-
1-This person is suing the FAA or the union? (somewhere else) about the n90-phl move. Are these foia just a part of that.
2-They feel like union didn't act in their best interest, and there's like two other people they mention that would have direct harm.
3-this is all some dude on break working on this? Good for them
4-The person is assuming natca went against the interests of members BUT until we know what the proposal was (weren't there rumors about per diem, raises, etc?) It'll be difficult to say.

So far N90 has fought and averages ~3 hour time on position, 5k trainee bonus, current ojti bonus was the same as they were already getting, special okc training program for their facility, free car washes.

Whoever at n90 has this level of resentment towards the union/FAA keep fighting you've basically shutdown the phl move.

Also was it Paul and Trish as the consultants I'm curious how'd they weigh in

I love reading made up statistics.

 

[Dontbotherme]

That and not involving the N90 rep…

And what constitutes an emergency could apply at A80, C90, ZNY, et cetera. The union has lost its fucking balls and is no different than higher ups in the Agency. There are a shit ton of facilities understaffed and soon to be (2-5 years) critically staffed. If they’re speaking of moving a sector of N90 like that’s going to fix a problem then EVERYONE of the FAA high up morons should be fired because a ton of facilities are about to be short staffed, critically staffed, or already at one of the previously mentioned levels of staffing. Fuck them if they think moving a level four tower controller to a high level tracon is a staffing solution. If it’s that easy to train and certify people, I’d love to see Jeff Vincent plug his ass in with a trainee. Their lack of hiring and ability to staff is a complete waste and misuse of public assets and gross mismanagement.

 

[Phillytroll69]

I love reading made up statistics.

Made up?
You can view t.o.p average on cedar
3k per trainee was an approved bonus for the area and they were already getting a higher onto percent, and teta is the Oklahoma class. What's made up?

Also not made up is now they stated it may harm the union if this information is release


Edit 3k not 5k misinformation

 

[Mazzman]

Made up?
You can view t.o.p average on cedar
5k per trainee was an approved bonus for the area and they were already getting a higher onto percent, and teta is the Oklahoma class. What's made up?

Also not made up is now they stated it may harm the union if this information is released

I work at N90. This is not true. Please show me a screen shot of the 5k per trainee bonus….I’ll be waiting. The only, again the only incentive we have is 20% trainer pay, which I still feel is way too low.

 

[I.DO.VEHCTAHS]

Made up?
You can view t.o.p average on cedar
5k per trainee was an approved bonus for the area and they were already getting a higher onto percent, and teta is the Oklahoma class. What's made up?

Also not made up is now they stated it may harm the union if this information is released

I can tell you first hand I spend over 4hrs in front of a scope each and every shift. It wasn’t 5k it was 3k. TETRA was Dean’s baby not N90’s and it’s a complete and total disaster as the OKC instructors are just passing everyone. So it means absolutely nothing. So please…shush. It was just mini bribes by NATCA National to force us to certify the brain dead vegetables they were sending here. Want to talk about the N90/C90 MOU loop hole that every Tom dick and Harry were using to bounce around the NAS to where ever they wanted? N90 never asked for any of that shit and knew none of it would work. Gimme 100% OJTI pay and if the trainee can’t read a METAR they ain’t gonna certify.

It will 100% harm the union because the union done fucked up. People do not want to work here. Dean…couldn’t wait to move to DC and leave this place. Rinaldi…literally grew up here and hates it and never even gave a thought to working here. RICH SANTA CERTIFIED HERE AND LEFT AS SOON AS HE COULD!