N90 (Newark Area) to PHL FOIA's

[32andBelow]

It’s a 30 year extension to the slate book.

They want to assure every current controller in the agency gets to work under it the rest of their career since “it’s simply the best contract ever imaginable, and would be a bad faith, utter insult to ever ask the agency for anything more”.

They’re waiting to negotiate with transportation secretary Santos

 

[ManBearPig]

N90 "fix our staffing!"
CPCs everywhere but N90 " screw that, I'm not living on Long Island"
N90 "don't move our facility!"

 

[CoffeeIV]

N90 "fix our staffing!"
CPCs everywhere but N90 " screw that, I'm not living on Long Island"
N90 "don't move our facility!"

You forget that plenty from N90 complain about the facility location on here. Yet when push comes to shove none of them want to move.

 

[inthrewtheoutdor]

Moving the facility isn't the answer. JFK/EWR/LGA are 11s, TEB a 9, FRG/HPN a 7, ISP a 6. They all live in the same area and manage higher staffing while being paid less.

 

[GulfCharlie]

One of the biggest issues is that NATCA did NOT consult the FacRep of N90 or even the facility. The controllers were presented with basically a fait accompli when they received their letters going to PHL. NATCA and the FAA did not adhere to Section 804 with NATCA bargaining in bad faith.

We have all heard the rumours/stories/legends what have you about N90 and it is always easy to sit back laughing at the complaints/bitching duality of being on Long Island (LI) while wanting to move the facility off LI. What people need to understand is that if it happens to N90 the way it is currently happening, what is to stop the Union and the FAA completely neutering the 804 process fucking entire facilities and their families over? People have homes, families, kids in schools who have lived their whole life on LI. At the end of the day these are our brothers and sisters (sure we will argue amongst ourselves) facing an external and internal threat. Even more how will we hold Union leadership accountable for their egregious violation of the FLRA? The Union has to be held accountable for these violations while trying to divide the membership.

 

[Seeyoufly]

Not bad TOP for 10 hr shifts.

“WeLl ThATs ThE sAmE aS 12 HoUrS oN pOSiTioN wHeRe YoU WoRk.”

 

[DankVectorz]

You forget that plenty from N90 complain about the facility location on here. Yet when push comes to shove none of them want to move.

The ones who bid to N90 generally don’t want to move. The ones who came here as first facility and got stuck thanks the National release policy do. But at the same time, we don’t think anyone should be forced to move or that taking a single area out of the building is a good idea.

 

[I.DO.VEHCTAHS]

Not bad TOP for 10 hr shifts.

Only 8 for me

 

[DankVectorz]

I average 5-6 TOP on my 10 hour days. The official average is kind of misleading as it includes Fd/CD only people as well and most areas other than EWR have like 5 of them splitting an 8 hour day which drags the overall average down a lot.

 

[RichMabbutt]

You forget that plenty from N90 complain about the facility location on here. Yet when push comes to shove none of them want to move.

Some of them want to move

 

[BCHOOSIER]

One of the biggest issues is that NATCA did NOT consult the FacRep of N90 or even the facility. The controllers were presented with basically a fait accompli when they received their letters going to PHL. NATCA and the FAA did not adhere to Section 804 with NATCA bargaining in bad faith.

We have all heard the rumours/stories/legends what have you about N90 and it is always easy to sit back laughing at the complaints/bitching duality of being on Long Island (LI) while wanting to move the facility off LI. What people need to understand is that if it happens to N90 the way it is currently happening, what is to stop the Union and the FAA completely neutering the 804 process fucking entire facilities and their families over? People have homes, families, kids in schools who have lived their whole life on LI. At the end of the day these are our brothers and sisters (sure we will argue amongst ourselves) facing an external and internal threat. Even more how will we hold Union leadership accountable for their egregious violation of the FLRA? The Union has to be held accountable for these violations while trying to divide the membership.

This is nothing new...Look no further than the AZO consolidation. Zilonis was overseeing things for national. He was forced out, national stepped in, and a MOU was signed shortly thereafter. If you dig a little deeper, check out the names that signed that MOU in 2018. They may look familiar. Isn't it strange that people with backgrounds from N90 and PHL were hand picked by national to negotiate a "groundbreaking" MOU for NATCA in Michigan. No one wanted to hear about how national asked for zero input from several of the FacReps involved. Nobody cared then because it was a bunch of small facilities. So how did they sell this to the work force? They created a system that deprived the work force of movement and upward mobility. They then offered immediate movement to the same deprived work force for instance gratification. The Agency and NATCA have been playing the long game for quite some time, making sure us "regular" folk dont get to watch.

 

[ConvergingCourses]

It hasn’t been as prevalent since they closed the loop hole for transfers. But…since the NEST lists for training failures is now 1.3-1.4 miles long for each trainees there seems to be a bit more willingness to wash. For the intentional washouts back when that was happening every day? For me, I was just done with them. No needs to even say hello. No one needs their time and energy wasted like that.

Just like there was an agenda to prove NDIS wrong and its been admitted that some of those early trainees should still be here. Funny how things work.

 

[GulfCharlie]

This is nothing new...Look no further than the AZO consolidation. Zilonis was overseeing things for national. He was forced out, national stepped in, and a MOU was signed shortly thereafter. If you dig a little deeper, check out the names that signed that MOU in 2018. They may look familiar. Isn't it strange that people with backgrounds from N90 and PHL were hand picked by national to negotiate a "groundbreaking" MOU for NATCA in Michigan. No one wanted to hear about how national asked for zero input from several of the FacReps involved. Nobody cared then because it was a bunch of small facilities. So how did they sell this to the work force? They created a system that deprived the work force of movement and upward mobility. They then offered immediate movement to the same deprived work force for instance gratification. The Agency and NATCA have been playing the long game for quite some time, making sure us "regular" folk dont get to watch.

I remember Zilonis (and campaigning heavily for him too) getting the boot, but I never heard squat from the smaller facilities. Granted I do not have my ear that close to the ground but people tend to reach out (even then) when disgruntled and I never heard anything.

 

[DankVectorz]

Just like there was an agenda to prove NDIS wrong and its been admitted that some of those early trainees should still be here. Funny how things work

Huh? We all hated NDIS because of the delays it caused. No one was washed or certified because of it afaik. At least not in my area. In fact for all the problems with NDIS, switching the labs to points instead of 1-deal-and-done saved a lot of people from washing.

 

[I.DO.VEHCTAHS]

Huh? We all hated NDIS because of the delays it caused. No one was washed or certified because of it afaik. At least not in my area. In fact for all the problems with NDIS, switching the labs to points instead of 1-deal-and-done saved a lot of people from washing.

The points system was a result of a change in the National training order.

But to the other guy’s point…yes, NDIS was an unmitigated disaster. That’s been determined already. Of course you’re going to get good controllers out of that bunch. The point is that NDIS did nothing to improve the quality of training prior to trainees hitting the floor. It in fact did the opposite. Case in point…The fuck stick from Dallas actually told N90 that trainees didn’t need to know adjacent airspace. That’s a NATCA detail fairy for you.

TETRA was supposed to have a 50% pass rate lol. That’s been rounded up to 100%. So the only thing that’s been accomplished is forcing trainees to stay in OKC longer than needed. It certainly hasn’t taught them how to vector any better.

 

[32andBelow]

You can def wash out just as easy or easier with the points system. They certainly wash out a lot with it at the academy. It really comes down to the evaluator.

 

[DankVectorz]

NDIS was an unmitigated disaster.

I agree with that, but he seemed to say people got washed out who could have made it to make a point that it sucked.

 

[ConvergingCourses]

Huh? We all hated NDIS because of the delays it caused. No one was washed or certified because of it afaik. At least not in my area. In fact for all the problems with NDIS, switching the labs to points instead of 1-deal-and-done saved a lot of people from washing.

Maybe not you or your area specifically because not everyone has an agenda (many don’t) but when our own fac rep says it, there’s not much more to refute. That new system definitely has helped and I think it was right. Under the old system, there was zero chance at improving staffing.

 

[I.DO.VEHCTAHS]

Maybe not you or your area specifically because not everyone has an agenda (many don’t) but when our own fac rep says it, there’s not much more to refute. That new system definitely has helped and I think it was right. Under the old system, there was zero chance at improving staffing.

Hate to break it to you…but the “new” system is just about identical to the old system minus the changes in the National training order

 

[ConvergingCourses]

Hate to break it to you…but the “new” system is just about identical to the old system minus the changes in the National training order

Yeah it’s definitely still flawed . Baby steps with the FAA.