New NATCA Facebook Page

[Horno]

How so

Let’s start with placement. Prior experience new hires are given these long lists of the NAS’ most desirable facilities while we have CPCs at level 5-6s stuck for multiple years without moving up. Now I know the union doesn’t control placement. But I think there could be some sort of a negation or MOU where the agency and union can sit together and determine a better placement technique for new hires.

Another example was COVID. In the beginning it may have been acceptable to keep trainees at home and cpc at work. But towards month 10,11,12 where trainees are at home doing nothing and not training or progressing their careers you had CPCs at work (out of 5/10) every day. If COVID was so bad at that point (almost a year later) that we had to keep trainees home wouldn’t that imply that Covid was hazardous enough for hazard pay?

 

[Move78]

Let’s start with placement. Prior experience new hires are given these long lists of the NAS’ most desirable facilities while we have CPCs at level 5-6s stuck for multiple years without moving up. Now I know the union doesn’t control placement. But I think there could be some sort of a negation or MOU where the agency and union can sit together and determine a better placement technique for new hires.

Another example was COVID. In the beginning it may have been acceptable to keep trainees at home and cpc at work. But towards month 10,11,12 where trainees are at home doing nothing and not training or progressing their careers you had CPCs at work (out of 5/10) every day. If COVID was so bad at that point (almost a year later) that we had to keep trainees home wouldn’t that imply that Covid was hazardous enough for hazard pay?

The union doesn’t hire, it’s labor law. They’re given long lists to rank. They don’t just get to pick. And they’re not the “NAS’ most desirable” that’s just something you made up to create an argument. Some are desirable to many. Most are the same shitholes everyone in here cries about. And desirable is subjective. The agency places new hires. The union has engaged the agency many times about sending new hires to places with large inbound ERR demand (desirable) but it’s their right. The Agency’s placement process has 0 relevance to your point that the union prioritizes the new guy. The new reentrant process is partially a product of those types of discussions and and ask the board here they all hate it cuz they can’t just go DOD for a year and then pick their new facility.

The whole Covid paragraph is you arguing against your own point. The new guys are the ones that all got fucked during Covid and existing CPCs in most of the country got free paid leave.

 

[ZO]

Let’s start with placement. Prior experience new hires are given these long lists of the NAS’ most desirable facilities while we have CPCs at level 5-6s stuck for multiple years without moving up. Now I know the union doesn’t control placement. But I think there could be some sort of a negation or MOU where the agency and union can sit together and determine a better placement technique for new hires.

Another example was COVID. In the beginning it may have been acceptable to keep trainees at home and cpc at work. But towards month 10,11,12 where trainees are at home doing nothing and not training or progressing their careers you had CPCs at work (out of 5/10) every day. If COVID was so bad at that point (almost a year later) that we had to keep trainees home wouldn’t that imply that Covid was hazardous enough for hazard pay?

New hire placements are being looked at. They are attempting to put new hires into facilities with a lot of ERR outbound requests as we speak.

 

[32andBelow]

New hire placements are being looked at. They are attempting to put new hires into facilities with a lot of ERR outbound requests as we speak.

They need to stop flooding facilities. They need to place people In a way to where the nas can certify the most amount of people per year.

 

[Horno]

New hire placements are being looked at. They are attempting to put new hires into facilities with a lot of ERR outbound requests as we speak.

If this happens that’s amazing.

 

[I'd rather be golfing]

There's a lot of crying going on in here. I'd be embarrassed if I whined this much about anything.

 

[AB19]

There's a lot of crying going on in here. I'd be embarrassed if I whined this much about anything.

Stop crying about them crying

 

[ATCJoe85]

I'd be more embarrassed to bend over and bite my tounge.

 

[CoffeeIV]

The placement process will never make everyone happy which in turn makes the transfer process suck regardless of what is done.

 

[AB19]

Just apply to N90 if you wanna leave so bad

 

[32andBelow]

The placement process will never make everyone happy which in turn makes the transfer process suck regardless of what is done.

So make it so no one is happy instead

 

[CoffeeIV]

So make it so no one is happy instead

We're basically at that stage already with the lack of direct to facility hires for new people (federal law prevention according to another poster) and NCEPT sucking because all the lower level tracons and facilities take an eternity to check out or people just quit/wash/hardship.

Plus the fact that most of the "dream" facilities will never be able to take all the people that want to go there anyways.

 

[32andBelow]

We're basically at that stage already with the lack of direct to facility hires for new people (federal law prevention according to another poster) and NCEPT sucking because all the lower level tracons and facilities take an eternity to check out or people just quit/wash/hardship.

Plus the fact that most of the "dream" facilities will never be able to take all the people that want to go there anyways.

Idk how to fix tower but center could
Probably place a majority of people where they want to go

 

[acutetriangles]

There's a lot of crying going on in here. I'd be embarrassed if I whined this much about anything.

This is the state of the ATC world when they can be anonymous.

 

[Phillytroll69]

This is the state of the ATC world when they can be anonymous.

Jokes on you we all whine at work too

 

[ZO]

If this happens that’s amazing.

It is currently happening. Look at a few new hire lists. Obviously it's not 100% only well staffed facilities, but a lot of the options are 90%+ staffed.

It makes sense. You take a new hire and send them to a well staffed, low checkout time facility with a lot of trainers. Have them checkout in sub 6 months, let the senior guys move on.

They need to stop flooding facilities. They need to place people In a way to where the nas can certify the most amount of people per year.

Flooding facilities with trainees in a facility that takes 2+ years to cert is bad. Flooding a level 5 tower where they'll check out in 3 months is fantastic.

 

[32andBelow]

Flooding facilities with trainees in a facility that takes 2+ years to cert is bad. Flooding a level 5 tower where they'll check out in 3 months is fantastic.

Yah but you’re not flooding it if they can keep up. Flooding is when people are just doing 0 waiting for a class

 

[Acquired Taste]

It is currently happening. Look at a few new hire lists. Obviously it's not 100% only well staffed facilities, but a lot of the options are 90%+ staffed.

It makes sense. You take a new hire and send them to a well staffed, low checkout time facility with a lot of trainers. Have them checkout in sub 6 months, let the senior guys move on.

Not sure what you're looking at but it definitely is not happening. At my low level up/down with heavy outbound ERR demand, we can't get a body to save our lives and our CPC/trainee ratio is low and they can start right away. They currently take 0 consideration into outbound ERR demand when making placements. Look at the Academy placement list. It's sorted purely by projected staffing and nothing else.

Now on this last prior exp list that went out, they did change it up a bit sent people long lists with a fuck ton of choices. There happened to be enough good places on the list that exceeded the amount of prior exp guys that were offered a list so naturally, they picked the best and left a bunch of shit no one wants for the AGs to pick through while skipping over places that are more in demand. I.E. people chose and were offered FTW, AFW, FPR, TMB ILM (# 135 on the list) and even PIE (#339, maybe that was a spousal placement) while to no one's surprise, MLU, ALO, and MWH all got passed over despite being top 30 on the list and projected less than 80%. Of course this is probably an effort to entice more help to the agency that is desperate considering the prior exp guys now know they can just turn down a selection and get offered a new one in a few months.

But hey, at least the AGs got to choose between ACK, ROW, EVV, and DLH.

 

[ZO]

Not sure what you're looking at but it definitely is not happening. At my low level up/down with heavy outbound ERR demand, we can't get a body to save our lives and our CPC/trainee ratio is low and they can start right away. They currently take 0 consideration into outbound ERR demand when making placements. Look at the Academy placement list. It's sorted purely by projected staffing and nothing else.

Now on this last prior exp list that went out, they did change it up a bit sent people long lists with a fuck ton of choices. There happened to be enough good places on the list that exceeded the amount of prior exp guys that were offered a list so naturally, they picked the best and left a bunch of shit no one wants for the AGs to pick through while skipping over places that are more in demand. I.E. people chose and were offered FTW, AFW, FPR, TMB ILM (# 135 on the list) and even PIE (#339, maybe that was a spousal placement) while to no one's surprise, MLU, ALO, and MWH all got passed over despite being top 30 on the list and projected less than 80%. Of course this is probably an effort to entice more help to the agency that is desperate considering the prior exp guys now know they can just turn down a selection and get offered a new one in a few months.

But hey, at least the AGs got to choose between ACK, ROW, EVV, and DLH.

I mean, most of the ones you listed align with what I'm stating. Sorry your one facility hasn't seen any benefit from this very recent change. But I'll take a shot and assume you have a long training time average?

 

[Acquired Taste]

I mean, most of the ones you listed align with what I'm stating. Sorry your one facility hasn't seen any benefit from this very recent change. But I'll take a shot and assume you have a long training time average?

The only thing they align with is that HR gave people more choices so they chose the best ones, but it isn't because those places had more outbound ERRs. It was because they were higher up on the academy list because their projected is bad. Unfortunately, I don't think there's a shred of evidence to give merit to what you're saying. As much as I wish it were true, I don't see any correlation.

Our training time is less than 5/6 of the up/downs that people were sent to on the last prior exp list. 11 out of 21 of the facilities filled or reserved from that prior exp list are lower than us on academy placement list (aka had better projected staffing than us at the time they were filled)