No vote on BWS

[Phillyman2633]

Ok so without going too deep down the rabbit hole, long story short we have what has to be one of the worst FacReps in history here at my facility.

Like many facilities we work the rattler, but we have at least 2 schedule proposals for next year that I'm aware of but our FacRep (who doesnt even work the posted schedule, hasn't worked a single mid this entire year except for when it's for Overtime) said in our quarterly meetings week that there would be no vote on the BWS for next year and that he would be imposing his own BWS.

To complicate the issue, for some reason our Local Constitution stipulates that the elections are to be done in October, so the new officers take office in mid-Oct. Our FacRep has told multiple members that if they dont like what he's doing, that it's an election year. Basically hes saying this knowing that hes going to get voted out, but because the new FacRep takes office so late in the year, the BWS and PTL are already going to be negotiated for 2020. (I have already drafted amendments to our local constitution to ensure that the new date for officers taking position is July 15th, because why the fuck would a FacRep have to get voted in and deal with someone else's BWS for the whole next calendar year).

We have a majority of the membership who have signed a letter basically saying that hes a fucking scumbag and if he thinks his schedule would pass to put it to a vote, but he knows he doesnt have the votes and is pretty much doing this as a final "fuck you" on his way out of the office.

Anyone run into any issues like this at their facility and have any sort of regs or clauses from the Slate Book/National Constitution that would help with this (besides just "contact your RVP")? I have one clause from the National Constitution that says (Article VI section 1) that says that members in good standing shall have the right to vote in referenda (and if this doesnt qualify as referenda then I'd be interested to know what would) but I'd like to hear some other anecdotes and maybe see if you guys have experienced anything similar.

 

[CF]

I know this isn't helpful for your situation but you'd think there would be the ability to recall/remove shitheads like this. I hear so many stories of awful facreps and we're just stuck with them.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

Better be careful not to piss him off, he might sign a multi year BWS agreement if the ATM is on board. Then he can lock the schedule down for many years. There are out clauses there but only if management would volunteer to reopen negotiations.

 

[PushingTin]

Its not what you want to hear but... The facrep is NATCA at your facility, and has the power to negotiate whatever schedule he wants, as long as it doesn't violate the contract (IE, imposing AWS that bums haven't requested on writing). Big NATCA will not remove the rep unless something very severe and illegal happens. They will tell you "vote him out". All that to say... Yes I have experienced similar and there is nothing you can do other than appeal.to the rep. In theory you could go to the ATM and complain, but they aren't legally allowed to negotiate outside of the facrep.

Just curious, what schedule is he imposing on you?

 

[Phillyman2633]

Just curious, what schedule is he imposing on you?

1600/1500/1300/0600/mid. We had this schedule 2 years ago, the majority voted for 1600/1300/0700/0600/mid this year to allow for better rest between the day shifts and the mid so you don't get your asshole penetrated by Doctor Fatigue. The top 6 or 7 in seniority whined to the FacRep to not allow the vote last year, he thought he had enough votes that their schedule was going to pass anyway....now that he has shit on his face from that ass-eating debacle, he knows he doesn't have the votes so he's deciding to implement it without a vote. He says "NATCA National has said they don't want locals to be voting on the BWS every year" and we're like....ok so you don't want to vote on a schedule this year because National doesn't want us to have a fuck ton of schedule changes so you're imposing a new one anyway?

 

[PushingTin]

1600/1500/1300/0600/mid. We had this schedule 2 years ago, the majority voted for 1600/1300/0700/0600/mid this year to allow for better rest between the day shifts and the mid so you don't get your asshole penetrated by Doctor Fatigue. The top 6 or 7 in seniority whined to the FacRep to not allow the vote last year, he thought he had enough votes that their schedule was going to pass anyway....now that he has shit on his face from that ass-eating debacle, he knows he doesn't have the votes so he's deciding to implement it without a vote. He says "NATCA National has said they don't want locals to be voting on the BWS every year" and we're like....ok so you don't want to vote on a schedule this year because National doesn't want us to have a fuck ton of schedule changes so you're imposing a new one anyway?

Wow. So I think that schedule is above and beyond on the shit schedule scale. IMO you can make a fatigue argument very easily.... Because IT IS. I call that a "double quick turn". Where you effectively work 3 shifts in about 36 hours. That is hell on your health and wellness, your alert level, your morale, everything. The contract allows fatigue leave under "Leave for special circumstances", where you self identify that you're not physically and/or mentally able to perform live traffic due to fatigue. If I was forced onto that schedule I would take fatigue leave a dozen times a year.

Once fatigue is invoked, the playbook goes... "Be careful, they'll come after your medical!". IMO and Dr. worth a damn will agree that that is a justifiably fatiguing schedule. I believe you should all ATSAP it, as it is clearly a safety issue. As well as look into other more serious alternatives. FAA administrator hotline, Congress, whatever you need to do. To me killing yourself on an upside down schedule like that is an emergency that trumps any real or perceived loyalty to any organization. That schedule I wouldn't wish on my worst enemies... And I have so many! ?

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

I'm at my third facility. My first facility the same people worked the mid every week and were guaranteed a third shift day shift. My second facility the mid rotated through the people on the crew who wanted it. No preference was given to what your third shift was. It was not at all uncommon to go swing day mid to end your week. My third facility it TBD because I've only been here two months.

Not sure if you're working the mid every week or just occasionally, and it certainly won't always work but in the mean time could you just request a shift change on your third shift?

 

[32andBelow]

1600/1500/1300/0600/mid. We had this schedule 2 years ago, the majority voted for 1600/1300/0700/0600/mid this year to allow for better rest between the day shifts and the mid so you don't get your asshole penetrated by Doctor Fatigue. The top 6 or 7 in seniority whined to the FacRep to not allow the vote last year, he thought he had enough votes that their schedule was going to pass anyway....now that he has shit on his face from that ass-eating debacle, he knows he doesn't have the votes so he's deciding to implement it without a vote. He says "NATCA National has said they don't want locals to be voting on the BWS every year" and we're like....ok so you don't want to vote on a schedule this year because National doesn't want us to have a fuck ton of schedule changes so you're imposing a new one anyway?

I guess just bang out fatigued and file ATSAPs all the time?

 

[FightingIrish2012]

I guess just bang out fatigued and file ATSAPs all the time?

You do that they pull your medical for not being strong or fit enough to handle the schedule the job negotiated and demands.

 

[CaptainObvious]

You do that they pull your medical for not being strong or fit enough to handle the schedule the job negotiated and demands.

Guess they better find you another position or medically retire you then.

 

[32andBelow]

You do that they pull your medical for not being strong or fit enough to handle the schedule the job negotiated and demands.

I don’t even understand how that schedule covers the day. Unless there airport is only busy In the afternoon.

 

[Gern Blanston]

That schedule makes no sense, the evenings would be flooded with bodies while the day's work short. In my 30 years we worked all kinds of schedules, but the basic rattler is what was usually agreed on. The ones that didn't like the mid's would work the 16-15-13-8-6 and the other's would do 16-13-8-6-23.

 

[Phillyman2633]

I guess just bang out fatigued and file ATSAPs all the time?

Oh yeah, I'll be filing ATSAPs all the fuckin time, for sure.

That schedule makes no sense, the evenings would be flooded with bodies while the day's work short.

Our "normal" 100% staffing numbers call for 6 (plus supe) on the day and 11 (plus supe) on the night.

Best part is that when confronted about why he doesnt work the mids, the FacRep straight-up told the controller who asked that "The Slate Book says I have to take my detail day on my Friday" fucking lying ass piece of shit...so the rep just works straight 1600-1500-1500-1300-detail.

 

[Gern Blanston]

Well, that does make a little more sense with more night shift coverage needed, but a basic watch schedule with a built in double quick turnarounds is insane. A Facrep that doesn't work basically the same schedule that they have negotiated for the workforce is a piece of shit ~especially one that has no quick turns. Vote them out is about the best you can do and change the local constitution to make sure this doesn't happen again. Nice to be retired!

 

[Stinger]

I know where you're coming from, however for a standard 80-hr schedule, that would be my dream BWS. The weeks that went 3 swings followed by a day-mid have always been my favorites.

 

[Expectvectors24]

BWS training has been conducted this year. Your facrep is correct that NATCA has advised not to take a vote on a schedule and rather take a poll of the facility (vote is binding). However, if the rep is choosing to run the facility as the king and not the leader, I’d advise calling Rich Santa and voicing your concerns. Not just you but as many people in your facility that feel it’s a problem.

 

[Phillyman2633]

BWS training has been conducted this year. Your facrep is correct that NATCA has advised not to take a vote on a schedule and rather take a poll of the facility (vote is binding). However, if the rep is choosing to run the facility as the king and not the leader, I’d advise calling Rich Santa and voicing your concerns. Not just you but as many people in your facility that feel it’s a problem.

We have a majority who signed a sheet saying that the FacRep implementing his own schedule is not appropriately representing his constituency that we will be sending to Santa.

I dong really understand why National is against voting on schedules when no one in national has worked a quick turn in years. I dont really think it's any of their business how often we vote on BWS on the local level, and why they would be against it in the first place. What end does that accomplish, limiting a vote on the BWS?

 

[Gern Blanston]

My last 23 years were at the same facility, Level 7 up/down 24 hours. Everybody had their preferences. Some really wanted the double quick turn at the end of their weeks, some wanted all days or all nights, some wanted no mids and some wanted to just work the schedule as posted. We went through all kinds of schedule gymnastics to try and make everybody happy but what ended up being the best was just the rattler and letting folks make swaps when the schedule came out. There is not a viable solution.

 

[CLRD4TO]

I dong really understand why National is against voting on schedules when no one in national has worked a quick turn in years. I dont really think it's any of their business how often we vote on BWS on the local level, and why they would be against it in the first place. What end does that accomplish, limiting a vote on the BWS?

National doesn’t want members “voting” because it is binding. If you vote on schedules or anything for that matter, you just locked yourself in. Taking a “survey” of the schedules is different. It’s semantics.

 

[Maintainvfr]

We have a majority who signed a sheet saying that the FacRep implementing his own schedule is not appropriately representing his constituency that we will be sending to Santa.

He's going to check your list twice to determine if your facrep is naughty or nice.

But yeah, it's tough to negotiate when a vote makes it so you're only really allowed to ask for one thing