ODO rules

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GulfBravoPapa

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When did the ODO rules change again? I feel like I missed a briefing because this five day elms (dumb method of distributing the information) is contradicting everything my current facility does. Apparently ODO now applies to IFR and VFR aircraft and includes parallel runways...? And can only be conducted during VFR conditions? Since when? And why do we keep changing the rules?
 
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GulfBravoPapa said:
When did the ODO rules change again? I feel like I missed a briefing because this five day elms (dumb method of distributing the information) is contradicting everything my current facility does. Apparently ODO now applies to IFR and VFR aircraft and includes parallel runways...? And can only be conducted during VFR conditions? Since when? And why do we keep changing the rules?
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Couldn’t tell you. Said screw ELMS when we’re Covid schedule but 4-5 of 6 sectors open with 6 on the shift. They can eat me on doing that stupid 24 hour shit
 
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I feel like ODO is in that category of “things the FAA wants to get rid of but needs someone to fuck it up to have an excuse.” Same thing with the mid rules at towers.
 
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CF said:
I feel like ODO is in that category of “things the FAA wants to get rid of but needs someone to fuck it up to have an excuse.” Same thing with the mid rules at towers.
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Have you not done any of the CBIs? People screw it up all the time... That's why we have to keep learning about it. I saw a replay out of an adjacent facility when at my previous facility that I'm shocked hasn't made it into a CBI yet...
 
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To be clear, simply using the opposite of the active runway with no opposing traffic is NOT ODO, correct? This was a huge point of contention at my last facility. We would be on 28’s but biz jets or turbo props (VFR a lot of times) would request 10 because it was right next to the FBO. If there was no one on approach or within 20 miles of 28, we’d grant the request. Management got upset and said we were required to ask if it was for “operational necessity”. It was so dumb to make them use 28 even from an operational standpoint (unless weather dictated otherwise of course) because 95% of them were flying East, so they had to taxi a mile and a half East to depart westbound, then fly 10 miles west over the ocean before NorCal turned them (100% not a knock on NorCal at all) and then turn around to fly East. Instead we could launch them East off 10 with maybe 500ft of taxi
 
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JNev said:
To be clear, simply using the opposite of the active runway with no opposing traffic is NOT ODO, correct? This was a huge point of contention at my last facility. We would be on 28’s but biz jets Or turbo props (VFR a lot of times) would request 10 because it was right next to the FBO. If there was no one on approach or within 20 miles of 28, we’d grant the request. Management got upset and said we were required to ask if it was for “operational necessity”
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We have to appreq ODO with the tower and then with us no matter if there is traffic or not
 
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32andBelow said:
We have to appreq ODO with the tower and then with us no matter if there is traffic or not
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Yea we’d have to run them down if they were IFR indicating RWY10, but does that constitute ODO really or just using a different runway? We would argue they were no opposite direction of any other aircraft so it was not ODO
 
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JNev said:
View attachment 4103This is part of the training material at my new facility which leads me to believe we were right and management just was uncomfortable with people departing on a non-advertised runway, even if it was safe
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The whole thing is kinda weird. We don’t know any of the tower rules and then you get this training where you have to like test on tower rules.

I guess for us we have to cus we don’t know what the tower is doing. And they have the appreq it with us because they don’t know what we are doing. They made it a huge deal that we appreq it on the recorded line not matter what.
 
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32andBelow said:
The whole thing is kinda weird. We don’t know any of the tower rules and then you get this training where you have to like test on tower rules.

I guess for us we have to cus we don’t know what the tower is doing. And they have the appreq it with us because they don’t know what we are doing. They made it a huge deal that we appreq it on the recorded line not matter what.
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It’s pretty sad the lack care they have about us understanding what TRACONs do and how they work. We were pretty much discouraged by our management from FAM’ing to NORCAL. When a group of us when we were trainees did it it was super illuminating and an incredible experience for us and the NORCAL guys who could ask us a question or two and kind of give us a feel of what they like and don’t like and how we can make it easier on them, etc. Even mandating 1 day per year to do something like that would do wonders imo. I get there are schedule issues, etc, but we have a whole day for Recurrent, why no co-education? Same with FDT, but that’s a whole different story really
 
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