PHL

MJ

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
2,604
PHL
Philadelphia Tower
Level: 11
Type: Tower and Approach Control
Facility Info
Address: 15 Hog Island Rd, Philadelphia, PA 19153
Phone: 215-492-4100
Hours: 0000-2359
Region: Eastern
District Washington
MMAC Travel Days 4

Pay

CPC
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D3
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D2
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D1
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AG
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Locality
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CIP
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COLA
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Differential
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Staffing

CPC Total
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CPC Target
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% of Target
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CPC-Trainee %
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Trainee Total
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Training Time (years)
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Success %
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NCEPT

Category
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Gains (Nat'l Avg)
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Gains (Target)
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Releases
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Projections

% to Target
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Inbounds
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Outbounds
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Losses
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National Averages

Current CPC % to Target
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Projected CPC % to Target
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Updated --/--/----


Operational Info​


External Links​

A/FD

Local Area​


External Links​

 

MN

Member
FAA
Messages
7
Facility
ZAU Chicago Center
Priority release and return rights MOU for PHL! When comes the vacancy announcement on usajobs? Any clue what they're projecting staffing to be once the EWR area is moved over?
 

Acquired Taste

Trusted Contributor
Messages
340
Priority release and return rights MOU for PHL! When comes the vacancy announcement on usajobs? Any clue what they're projecting staffing to be once the EWR area is moved over?
Link? Also I think EWR is going to be their own area once they go right? And if I remember DankVectorz #'s correctly, he said something along the lines of the the EWR area target is 50ish, and they have like 30 ish CPC's now but no one is being forced to move and like 40% want to stay, 40% want to go, and 20% will retire so give or take 13 CPC's going and no plans for any of the trainees that went to N90 to go the PHL. That's just what I think I remember hearing but maybe Dank can give us the latest.
 
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MN

Member
FAA
Messages
7
Facility
ZAU Chicago Center
Link? Also I think EWR is going to be their own area once they go right? And if I remember DankVectorz #'s correctly, he said something along the lines of the the EWR area target is 50ish, and they have like 30 ish CPC's now but no one is being forced to move and like 40% want to stay, 40% want to go, and 20% will retire so give or take 13 CPC's going and no plans for any of the trainees that went to N90 to go the PHL. That's just what I think I remember hearing but maybe Dank can give us the latest.

It was in my cedar today but it looked like the document was signed over 2 weeks ago. I’ll upload a copy when I go back in to work.

So I guess 3 areas at PHL after all is said and done? (Cab plus however many radars, PHL tracon, then EWR?) Guessing pretty much everyone picked up from now on will be assigned to the EWR area then.
 

Acquired Taste

Trusted Contributor
Messages
340
It was in my cedar today but it looked like the document was signed over 2 weeks ago. I’ll upload a copy when I go back in to work.

So I guess 3 areas at PHL after all is said and done? (Cab plus however many radars, PHL tracon, then EWR?) Guessing pretty much everyone picked up from now on will be assigned to the EWR area then.
I'm super curious to see how they're going to resolve this logistical nightmare. Because if only half of the poorly staffed ewr area wants to go and no one is forced to move, that's not enough people to run the airspace from phl. So are they going to split up the airspace between the two buildings and work like that until enough people in phl certify? Are the guys in phl gonna staff the night shift and midnights while guys who stayed at n90 going to work the mornings or something? How are they going to deal with the procedural issues N90-EWR has brought up? Not only that but even if they put a bid out tomorrow, it's unlikely that they any new trainees get there by the time they're supposed to cutover with them likely having to go to okc for tsew and probably tetra.

The whole thing seems very complex and I don't envy the guys in charge of making it work but it also makes me really intrigued to follow along in the process.
 
Messages
61
They should let CPCs in other areas of the TRACON go to PHL with the EWR area. The check out times would be a lot faster and as far as the staffing issue for the rest of the N90 areas, well, that’s a ticking time bomb regardless.
 

DankVectorz

Legendary Member
FAA
Messages
1,532
Facility
N90 New York Tracon
It was in my cedar today but it looked like the document was signed over 2 weeks ago. I’ll upload a copy when I go back in to work.

So I guess 3 areas at PHL after all is said and done? (Cab plus however many radars, PHL tracon, then EWR?) Guessing pretty much everyone picked up from now on will be assigned to the EWR area then.

Correct. Currently the Tracon side has Area A and Area B and EWR will become Area C.

As for how the FAA plans to make this work, frankly I don’t give a shit so long as I get off Long Island. We don’t have official numbers but supposedly between n90 and PHL about 17-20 people have volunteered for the EWR area. That’s not a lot but honestly it’s not that much lower than what we have now. If they’d open another bid for the recently certified (we checked out 5 in the last month, but 6 are retiring lol) and trainees it would get a lot better. But either way, what are they gonna do? Make me work more OT? /s
 
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steakvendor

Member
Messages
76
So is PHL guaranteed to upgrade to a 12 after absorbing the EWR area? Everyone on this priority bid would get 11-to-12 upgrade raises?
 

Acquired Taste

Trusted Contributor
Messages
340
So is PHL guaranteed to upgrade to a 12 after absorbing the EWR area? Everyone on this priority bid would get 11-to-12 upgrade raises?
So as of April, PHL's TCI was running level 9 numbers. Even pre covid, PHL was running very middle of the road 11 numbers. N90's tci was roughly cut in half too. Both numbers are now rebounding and I know it's not as simple as just adding EWR traffic count to PHL but I don't see them becoming a 12 for quite a while. Pre covid it would've been a definite yes but now it's not so definite.

It's funny though that they had a hard time attracting people to work at N90 but now are going to be offering less money to work what I believe is the hardest area of N90. Interesting tactic to say the least. Granted the cost of living is considerably cheaper in Philly. Gotta wonder if they'll get a bump in CIP pay down there. Maybe some training/cert bonuses or something
 

DankVectorz

Legendary Member
FAA
Messages
1,532
Facility
N90 New York Tracon
So as of April, PHL's TCI was running level 9 numbers. Even pre covid, PHL was running very middle of the road 11 numbers. N90's tci was roughly cut in half too. Both numbers are now rebounding and I know it's not as simple as just adding EWR traffic count to PHL but I don't see them becoming a 12 for quite a while. Pre covid it would've been a definite yes but now it's not so definite.

It's funny though that they had a hard time attracting people to work at N90 but now are going to be offering less money to work what I believe is the hardest area of N90. Interesting tactic to say the least. Granted the cost of living is considerably cheaper in Philly. Gotta wonder if they'll get a bump in CIP pay down there. Maybe some training/cert bonuses or something
Don’t forget to include complexity into the rating for level 12. But just between EWR and TEB traffic I think PHL becoming a 12 is an almost sure thing.

As for them getting people to come for less money, meh, it’s not that much less (bottom of 12 and bottom of 11 are like $6,000 difference) and the cost of living difference is way more than that. I was actually running a bunch of a different cost of living calculators and they basically said for me to maintain my current QoL around PHL I needed to make $30k LESS than what I will be making at PHL, and that’s with only 7 years in the agency so I’m not far above the base level 12.
 

Acquired Taste

Trusted Contributor
Messages
340
Don’t forget to include complexity into the rating for level 12. But just between EWR and TEB traffic I think PHL becoming a 12 is an almost sure thing.

As for them getting people to come for less money, meh, it’s not that much less (bottom of 12 and bottom of 11 are like $6,000 difference) and the cost of living difference is way more than that. I was actually running a bunch of a different cost of living calculators and they basically said for me to maintain my current QoL around PHL I needed to make $30k LESS than what I will be making at PHL, and that’s with only 7 years in the agency so I’m not far above the base level 12.
Yeah I was looking at the tci which takes complexity into account. Based on the points, assuming N90 and PHL both got to 80% of the pre covid numbers, it would be right on the cusp of level 12 numbers. But you also have to factor other things like any thru traffic that was already going thru PHL and EWR now becomes 1 count instead of 2. I know that's probably not much but still.

With the pay, base with locality at N90 is 154k and 138k at PHL. But PHL only gets 3.1% compared to N90's 25% so I think the difference is pretty significant. What's the deal with the 25% cip anyway? Is that getting phased out or something?
 

DankVectorz

Legendary Member
FAA
Messages
1,532
Facility
N90 New York Tracon
Yeah I was looking at the tci which takes complexity into account. Based on the points, assuming N90 and PHL both got to 80% of the pre covid numbers, it would be right on the cusp of level 12 numbers. But you also have to factor other things like any thru traffic that was already going thru PHL and EWR now becomes 1 count instead of 2. I know that's probably not much but still.

With the pay, base with locality at N90 is 154k and 138k at PHL. But PHL only gets 3.1% compared to N90's 25% so I think the difference is pretty significant. What's the deal with the 25% cip anyway? Is that getting phased out or something?

the extra 15% CIP goes away this year.
 

N90-EWR

Active Member
FAA
Messages
43
Facility
N90 New York Tracon
Correct. Currently the Tracon side has Area A and Area B and EWR will become Area C.

As for how the FAA plans to make this work, frankly I don’t give a shit so long as I get off Long Island. We don’t have official numbers but supposedly between n90 and PHL about 17-20 people have volunteered for the EWR area. That’s not a lot but honestly it’s not that much lower than what we have now. If they’d open another bid for the recently certified (we checked out 5 in the last month, but 6 are retiring lol) and trainees it would get a lot better. But either way, what are they gonna do? Make me work more OT? /s
You know that anyone above first line supervisor level has no clue whatsoever about the intricacies of our operation. They have no plans on how to make the operation work because they don't even know that they need a plan. None of the "decision makers" responsible for this move happening know the airspace, or how the rules of the operation changes the moment you split EWR away from LGA.

Now, it is on the controllers in the area to make sure that they follow THEIR rules! Don't be playing the hero and bending rules to make their pile of steaming shit work. Hold them accountable and follow the 7110.65. No more cheating climbs!
 

FightingIrish2012

Forum Sage
Messages
1,040
You know that anyone above first line supervisor level has no clue whatsoever about the intricacies of our operation. They have no plans on how to make the operation work because they don't even know that they need a plan. None of the "decision makers" responsible for this move happening know the airspace, or how the rules of the operation changes the moment you split EWR away from LGA.

Now, it is on the controllers in the area to make sure that they follow THEIR rules! Don't be playing the hero and bending rules to make their pile of steaming shit work. Hold them accountable and follow the 7110.65. No more cheating climbs!
If you or someone has time one day would you mind just rewriting up a brief summary of the EWR-LGA thing? I know digging into deep technical aspects of things is not the reason for these forums I just see it referenced a lot and think it would be interesting to get a baseline understanding of.
 

GulfCharlie

Comrade Commissar
FAA
Messages
1,210
Facility
BNA Nashville Tower
If you or someone has time one day would you mind just rewriting up a brief summary of the EWR-LGA thing? I know digging into deep technical aspects of things is not the reason for these forums I just see it referenced a lot and think it would be interesting to get a baseline understanding of.
I second this, most curious as well.
 
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