You know that anyone above first line supervisor level has no clue whatsoever about the intricacies of our operation. They have no plans on how to make the operation work because they don't even know that they need a plan. None of the "decision makers" responsible for this move happening know the airspace, or how the rules of the operation changes the moment you split EWR away from LGA.
Now, it is on the controllers in the area to make sure that they follow THEIR rules! Don't be playing the hero and bending rules to make their pile of steaming shit work. Hold them accountable and follow the 7110.65. No more cheating climbs!
If you or someone has time one day would you mind just rewriting up a brief summary of the EWR-LGA thing? I know digging into deep technical aspects of things is not the reason for these forums I just see it referenced a lot and think it would be interesting to get a baseline understanding of.
If you or someone has time one day would you mind just rewriting up a brief summary of the EWR-LGA thing? I know digging into deep technical aspects of things is not the reason for these forums I just see it referenced a lot and think it would be interesting to get a baseline understanding of.
I second this, most curious as well.
From the looks of it, the agency’s main priority is picking that place apart.
Good. Ive been around a long time and N90 has always been a toxic drain on resources.
If you or someone has time one day would you mind just rewriting up a brief summary of the EWR-LGA thing? I know digging into deep technical aspects of things is not the reason for these forums I just see it referenced a lot and think it would be interesting to get a baseline understanding of.
There's quite a lot of intricacies that are unique to N90. I'm not going to cover them all. At the heart of it is that the EWR and LGA area have a few spots where they share airspace. Some are flow dependent, but one in particular (the "special use line") is constant. This particular one is of special importance, because there is no provisions on the 7110.65 to cover this. Basically the only place in the entire NAS (and the world) where you can "separate" aircraft by using course divergence from a boundary line and not the aircraft itself. This means that in theory the EWR departure controller can have an aircraft on the line climbing through the altitude of a LGA arrival that's also right on that line, as long as the EWR departure is 15 degrees or more diverging from the LINE. Only place you find this in writing is in the N90 SOP. The moment the EWR area goes to PHL, they're not covered by this SOP, which means that they would need a new LOA between N90 and PHL that puts that in writing, and thus putting that obscure workaround outside of N90 for the first time ever.
They have no idea or plan to even work on how to address this. I'm retired, so no longer in there to care, but I'm willing to bet that management simply intends to carry over that N90 SOP and pretend that they're not violating any rules, while hope and pray that the press doesn't catch a wind of this.
Other issues like the LGA ILS 13 shuts down TEB will be interesting to watch how they handle once the areas are split. This airspace is fucked up in more ways than one, and the true ramifications of the move will have a severe impact on the operation, and the users.
There's quite a lot of intricacies that are unique to N90. I'm not going to cover them all. At the heart of it is that the EWR and LGA area have a few spots where they share airspace. Some are flow dependent, but one in particular (the "special use line") is constant. This particular one is of special importance, because there is no provisions on the 7110.65 to cover this. Basically the only place in the entire NAS (and the world) where you can "separate" aircraft by using course divergence from a boundary line and not the aircraft itself. This means that in theory the EWR departure controller can have an aircraft on the line climbing through the altitude of a LGA arrival that's also right on that line, as long as the EWR departure is 15 degrees or more diverging from the LINE. Only place you find this in writing is in the N90 SOP. The moment the EWR area goes to PHL, they're not covered by this SOP, which means that they would need a new LOA between N90 and PHL that puts that in writing, and thus putting that obscure workaround outside of N90 for the first time ever.
They have no idea or plan to even work on how to address this. I'm retired, so no longer in there to care, but I'm willing to bet that management simply intends to carry over that N90 SOP and pretend that they're not violating any rules, while hope and pray that the press doesn't catch a wind of this.
Other issues like the LGA ILS 13 shuts down TEB will be interesting to watch how they handle once the areas are split. This airspace is fucked up in more ways than one, and the true ramifications of the move will have a severe impact on the operation, and the users.
Thanks you for explaining. That is not as off the wall as I imagined it might be, but I can see it being a issue. I think it will be solved the way you predicted, just convert that SOP into a LOA. I know LOAs are typically more complicated or have higher .65 and rules “standards” but that won’t matter here. The press is lazy and would have a hard time understanding this, unless there is a literal accident or several near misses they will never catch wind or care about it.
Thanks you for explaining. That is not as off the wall as I imagined it might be, but I can see it being a issue. I think it will be solved the way you predicted, just convert that SOP into a LOA. I know LOAs are typically more complicated or have higher .65 and rules “standards” but that won’t matter here. The press is lazy and would have a hard time understanding this, unless there is a literal accident or several near misses they will never catch wind or care about it.
It is actually more "off the wall" than what you think. It's just very hard to explain, and even harder to grasp for anyone that doesn't have to do what it's done there. There are many places way busier than the EWR area, but I don't know of any other places that have so many fucked up procedures and built in deals. I only mentioned the most glaring issue. Don't have the time or desire to go type a book here to go in depth with all the others.
The FAA does have the advantage of pushing this move during a "low" period of traffic, since the travel industry is still in COVID recovery, and nowhere near peak traffic volume, but eventually the shit will hit the proverbial fan, and of course in typical FAA fashion, the culprits that made this decision would have already moved elsewhere, so nobody will be held accountable, and the users will get hosed.
I'm thankful I now live on the other side of the country.
Just got my TOL for western pacific for anyone going there
ZSE ?
Anyone know how Article 124 is handled in this NCEPT process ?
