Possible to be re-hired after washing out?

[Aaejay]

I washed out of my first facility, a level 6 tower, and got terminated within my 1 year probation. Is there any chance the FAA will rehire me in the future or should I give up on ever controlling again?

 

[TangoFox]

Not the worst option to take if having a stable fed career is important to you.

What happened to all the Flight Service jobs across the country? Half curious because I actually don't know, and half using it as an argument to the stability of a FSS job.

 

[TushingPin]

What happened to all the Flight Service jobs across the country? Half curious because I actually don't know, and half using it as an argument to the stability of a FSS job.

All got contracted out. All the FAA FSS gigs are now in Alaska.

 

[Aaejay]

FSS doesn't sound bad. How often do bids open up for Alaska?

 

[HighFrequency]

What happened to all the Flight Service jobs across the country? Half curious because I actually don't know, and half using it as an argument to the stability of a FSS job.

Contracted out to Lockheed Martin/Leidos, of course. But in the time since that happened, one could have started and nearly retired without any substantial changes in AK FSS traffic (which is still going strong). It's pretty different from the shitty corporate FSS in the lower 48, in a lot of ways.

FSS doesn't sound bad. How often do bids open up for Alaska?

I think they come out annually, maybe biannually. They look similar to the other Air Traffic bids, but are limited to the Alaska region in the listing.

 

[Algernon]

Some questions along this thread's topic:

1) I don't see a lot of Flight Data openings on USAJobs... are Flight Data positions generally available, and if so, is there a way to request one if you might be in danger of washing out? And does FDU still get the same agency benefits in general as ATCs?

2) Follow-up question: If you wash out of your first facility (let's say a level 12), and either end up in a Flight Data position or not - can you reapply to a direct hire bid to a specific facility? Someone in FDU said this was the case, regardless of age, etc.

 

[POINTOUT]

Some questions along this thread's topic:

1) I don't see a lot of Flight Data openings on USAJobs... are Flight Data positions generally available, and if so, is there a way to request one if you might be in danger of washing out? And does FDU still get the same agency benefits in general as ATCs?

2) Follow-up question: If you wash out of your first facility (let's say a level 12), and either end up in a Flight Data position or not - can you reapply to a direct hire bid to a specific facility? Someone in FDU said this was the case, regardless of age, etc.

No because you washed out, you don’t have the experience required to apply previous experience.

 

[Algernon]

No because you washed out, you don’t have the experience required to apply previous experience.

So that answers the second question. Any idea on how one applies into Flight Data?

I still find it bonkers that someone getting shafted with a brutal Level 12 center as their first facility gets ZERO second chances if you can't quite hack it there - circumstances etc. be damned. You get sent to the worst area in the building, you fall in with a crew that nobody likes and become guilty by association, you get washed out while worse trainees with easier trainers are certifying on your sector... But oh, no, we can't give you a shot to work your way up from a level 5 tower.

 

[skykid11]

So that answers the second question. Any idea on how one applies into Flight Data?

I still find it bonkers that someone getting shafted with a brutal Level 12 center as their first facility gets ZERO second chances if you can't quite hack it there - circumstances etc. be damned. You get sent to the worst area in the building, you fall in with a crew that nobody likes and become guilty by association, you get washed out while worse trainees with easier trainers are certifying on your sector... But oh, no, we can't give you a shot to work your way up from a level 5 tower.

The problem is that as far as the FAA is concerned, you're replaceable. If you really want to get into Flight Data, you may have to work for Lockheed/Leidos and wait for an Air Traffic Assistant position to open up.

 

[ajmezz]

Did they not offer you FSS in Alaska?

 

[MrNoodle]

Did they not offer you FSS in Alaska?

he was fired within the first year, so he may have washed but the facility chose to terminate him instead of waiting for a list I guess

 

[ajmezz]

he was fired within the first year, so he may have washed but the facility chose to terminate him instead of waiting for a list I guess

Guess I should have specified that my question was directed at the most recent post asking the questions.

 

[Horno]

Some questions along this thread's topic:

1) I don't see a lot of Flight Data openings on USAJobs... are Flight Data positions generally available, and if so, is there a way to request one if you might be in danger of washing out? And does FDU still get the same agency benefits in general as ATCs?

2) Follow-up question: If you wash out of your first facility (let's say a level 12), and either end up in a Flight Data position or not - can you reapply to a direct hire bid to a specific facility? Someone in FDU said this was the case, regardless of age, etc.

1) they come up Periodically. You can set up notifications on usajobs like you may have done for ATC. I don’t think it’s 2152…I think it’s 2154…and if it is 2154 then there’s one for ZME right now.
2) I don’t believe so because you never held a cert. you might be able to direct hire into an RPO job or maybe even flight data but not as a controller.

 

[Algernon]

Guess I should have specified that my question was directed at the most recent post asking the questions.

I am not sacked yet. I have been assigned to the facility for over 2 years, and training on my first D-Side for nearly 1.5 years (Covid, staffing, etc). I am awaiting the results of my 2nd TRB, and despite the word that it sounds like I'll get one last hail-mary shot at the sector, I'm doing my best to research and prepare any backup plans. Big thing is, I really wanted to just stay in the agency in SOME capacity, to maintain the benefits for myself and my family.

I was asking around to see if they offer you anything if they decide to terminate training, and it sounds like generally no... and again, this seems so nuts because even when people fail out of the Academy on evals, they give them offers to go into TechOps or something on the spot. That's why it seems wild that if you draw a short straw at a rough Level 12, and maybe it's not quite your speed, it's just "tough sh*t, son. See ya never."

 

[32andBelow]

So that answers the second question. Any idea on how one applies into Flight Data?

I still find it bonkers that someone getting shafted with a brutal Level 12 center as their first facility gets ZERO second chances if you can't quite hack it there - circumstances etc. be damned. You get sent to the worst area in the building, you fall in with a crew that nobody likes and become guilty by association, you get washed out while worse trainees with easier trainers are certifying on your sector... But oh, no, we can't give you a shot to work your way up from a level 5 tower.

If you just get 1 sector then you’ll get a tower shot. So you don’t have to come anywhere close to getting fully certified to get a second shot.

From what I’ve seen these flight data or other office jobs may become available if you ask around during your nest process.

 

[ajmezz]

I am not sacked yet. I have been assigned to the facility for over 2 years, and training on my first D-Side for nearly 1.5 years (Covid, staffing, etc). I am awaiting the results of my 2nd TRB, and despite the word that it sounds like I'll get one last hail-mary shot at the sector, I'm doing my best to research and prepare any backup plans. Big thing is, I really wanted to just stay in the agency in SOME capacity, to maintain the benefits for myself and my family.

I was asking around to see if they offer you anything if they decide to terminate training, and it sounds like generally no... and again, this seems so nuts because even when people fail out of the Academy on evals, they give them offers to go into TechOps or something on the spot. That's why it seems wild that if you draw a short straw at a rough Level 12, and maybe it's not quite your speed, it's just "tough sh*t, son. See ya never."

It’s not always the case that you’ll be offered something, but still a good chance you could get offered FSS is AK or potentially like level 4/5 towers. I’m not too familiar with it but I think those decisions are usually determined by how many positions you have and the recommendation of your atm on whether they think you’d be successful at said facilities. Best of luck either way.

 

[Mr.Tickles]

I am not sacked yet. I have been assigned to the facility for over 2 years, and training on my first D-Side for nearly 1.5 years (Covid, staffing, etc). I am awaiting the results of my 2nd TRB, and despite the word that it sounds like I'll get one last hail-mary shot at the sector, I'm doing my best to research and prepare any backup plans. Big thing is, I really wanted to just stay in the agency in SOME capacity, to maintain the benefits for myself and my family.

I was asking around to see if they offer you anything if they decide to terminate training, and it sounds like generally no... and again, this seems so nuts because even when people fail out of the Academy on evals, they give them offers to go into TechOps or something on the spot. That's why it seems wild that if you draw a short straw at a rough Level 12, and maybe it's not quite your speed, it's just "tough sh*t, son. See ya never."

So one thing maybe to talk to your rep about is to see if maybe a different area would take you. We’ve had trainees occasionally wash from our most difficult area to have the union fight for them to go to different area and be successful.

If you got the short end of the stick with the most difficult area and the most difficult sector to start with it might be something you’d be able to swing.

 

[boots]

I am not sacked yet. I have been assigned to the facility for over 2 years, and training on my first D-Side for nearly 1.5 years (Covid, staffing, etc). I am awaiting the results of my 2nd TRB, and despite the word that it sounds like I'll get one last hail-mary shot at the sector, I'm doing my best to research and prepare any backup plans. Big thing is, I really wanted to just stay in the agency in SOME capacity, to maintain the benefits for myself and my family.

I was asking around to see if they offer you anything if they decide to terminate training, and it sounds like generally no... and again, this seems so nuts because even when people fail out of the Academy on evals, they give them offers to go into TechOps or something on the spot. That's why it seems wild that if you draw a short straw at a rough Level 12, and maybe it's not quite your speed, it's just "tough sh*t, son. See ya never."

Buddy it’s D sides. I don’t know what to tell you but it’s not rocket science. If you’re on R sides then my apologies.

 

[Smitty]

I am not sacked yet. I have been assigned to the facility for over 2 years, and training on my first D-Side for nearly 1.5 years (Covid, staffing, etc). I am awaiting the results of my 2nd TRB, and despite the word that it sounds like I'll get one last hail-mary shot at the sector, I'm doing my best to research and prepare any backup plans. Big thing is, I really wanted to just stay in the agency in SOME capacity, to maintain the benefits for myself and my family.

I was asking around to see if they offer you anything if they decide to terminate training, and it sounds like generally no... and again, this seems so nuts because even when people fail out of the Academy on evals, they give them offers to go into TechOps or something on the spot. That's why it seems wild that if you draw a short straw at a rough Level 12, and maybe it's not quite your speed, it's just "tough sh*t, son. See ya never."

damn this attitude is pervasive and why most trainees who completely SUCK act so entitled and non-chalant about it. They truly feel entitled to succeed , even when they fail over and over. why would you be guarunteed to stay in the FAA when they hired you to do a specific job that you were unable to do? Im not saying that as an insult or implying you are a "failure" writ large, but there is no shame in being unsuccessful in ATC. It is not a sustainable system if every ATC washout the FAA hires is guaranteed a lifetime job. That is depressing as hell that you would want to cling to any menial FAA scam job no matter what. shit man, you can do way better than that everyone is hiring everywhere.

I must be cruel only to be kind. Thus bad begins, and worse remains behind.

 

[Algernon]

damn this attitude is pervasive and why most trainees who completely SUCK act so entitled and non-chalant about it. They truly feel entitled to succeed , even when they fail over and over. why would you be guarunteed to stay in the FAA when they hired you to do a specific job that you were unable to do? Im not saying that as an insult or implying you are a "failure" writ large, but there is no shame in being unsuccessful in ATC. It is not a sustainable system if every ATC washout the FAA hires is guaranteed a lifetime job. That is depressing as hell that you would want to cling to any menial FAA scam job no matter what. shit man, you can do way better than that everyone is hiring everywhere.

I must be cruel only to be kind. Thus bad begins, and worse remains behind.

I only am asking them for a fair opportunity. I haven't gotten that thus far, as per the National Training Order, and due to a training team that couldn't even identify clear, specific issues which I wasn't performing, or why I wasn't being certified.

I just got the letter back from the ATM, I won my TRB again and I'm getting switched to the opposite side of the watch with a new supe and new team. This isn't whiny millennial shit, dude. I'm not saying I'm the next prodigy ATC, but I'm also for sure better than half the trainees in my area.

I'm too old to play these stupid egotistical games on an internet forum. Shit's not fair, but such is life. I'm just here probing for some info.

 

[Horny4.65]

Some questions along this thread's topic:

1) I don't see a lot of Flight Data openings on USAJobs... are Flight Data positions generally available, and if so, is there a way to request one if you might be in danger of washing out? And does FDU still get the same agency benefits in general as ATCs?

2) Follow-up question: If you wash out of your first facility (let's say a level 12), and either end up in a Flight Data position or not - can you reapply to a direct hire bid to a specific facility? Someone in FDU said this was the case, regardless of age, etc.

If you are at a center slide by FD and talk to people who work there, maybe ask to talk to the sup.

Lots of centers are hurting for FDs. You don’t have to apply via USA jobs bid, but it will depend on the ATM. As far as I know (per HR manual/policy) all you would have to do is to submit an ERR package.

From what I have heard: pay wise isn’t that great. But if it’s a location semi-close to being fully staffed then breaks are nice.