Shoot The Breeze

[Ad1234]

So no free speech on television radio or the internet then too? I'm pretty fat from a fuckin republican but damn you are making shit arguments bruh

Free speech doesn’t lead to death of citizens. The medium of speech doesn’t restrict another persons right to life like a gun does.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Which mental illness did the Vegas shooter have? How about the Pulse Nightclub shooter?

It’s easier now than ever to get treatment for mental health issues. It’s the ultimate red herring in the gun arena

Hard to diagnose a dead guy, and the other was a religious extremist. Way to cherry pick the two on the boatloads of offenders who would have been stopped with better mental Healthcare.

Call it want you want, the root of the problem isn't solved until you solve the mental health crisis, and taking away one means of doing so doesn't eliminate all the others, nor does it do anything but make criminals out of the rest of us.

 

[SharkBait]

banning that magazine is notunreasonable mor does it infringe one your rights because the framers of the constitution did not envision that managzine when they were around. Also Since Republicans claims to be originalists that’s pretty valid.
Also we are no where near a tyrinca government. Except for the patriot act.

edit: do you have a prob registering your car? Why not your gun? How about start there?

The framers of the constitution were fighting an over reaching goverment, they wanted the citizen to have military grade weapons to fight back. If anything thats an argument for for us to have tanks and nukes.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Free speech doesn’t lead to death of citizens. The medium of speech doesn’t restrict another persons right to life like a gun does.

So hypothetically if I disseminate white nationalist propoganda far and wide on Twitter, and some nut job decides to take in my message and do something terrible that's a nonissue for you?

Last I checked laws don't stop the lawless, the guns aren't going to magically disappear if they are outlawed, they are just going to become a bigger problem as now they'll all be completely unrecorded and untraceable to an owner.

For the record, I'm absolutely for stronger universal background checks and I'm not 100 percent anti red flag law, so long as you can show me an effective way of implementing them and not causing harm to legal owners. I'm not for a ban or strengthening of the nfa, or adding anything to it, which is the Biden plan.

 

[Ad1234]

So hypothetically if I disseminate white nationalist propoganda far and wide on Twitter, and some nut job decides to take in my message and do something terrible that's a nonissue for you?

Last I checked laws don't stop the lawless, the guns aren't going to magically disappear if they are outlawed, they are just going to become a bigger problem as now they'll all be completely unrecorded and untraceable to an owner.

For the record, I'm absolutely for stronger universal background checks and I'm not 100 percent anti red flag law, so long as you can show me an effective way of implementing them and not causing harm to legal owners. I'm not for a ban or strengthening of the nfa, or adding anything to it, which is the Biden plan.

Talking in and of itself does not constitute free speech, there have been many cases that have defined that such as yelling fire in a crowded theatre causing fear and uneeded panic. So your argument would lose today in American court.

and really to your last point, that’s what I want out of the gun debate, taking guns now seems ridiculous and impossible but going forward how any legal andgood gun owner wouldn’t want to stop Any percentage or Severely limit any damage in commission of those crimes with guns I just don’t understand.

edit: also the only way to stop DUIs is put a breathalyzer in every car but that would also stop half you degenerates from coming to work.

 

[Shikaka]

Nice. Would love to have some peppers. We’ve only got tomatoes right now. My wife does have a few spices now that I think about it. Once we get our own place we’ll have a decent size garden. We keep talking about doing potatoes and bell peppers but just haven’t ever gotten around to i.

We have some King of the North bell peppers and small snackers too. They're super hungry plants so try to keep them a distance from others, like tomatoes.

A good one to look into also is ground cherries, awesome plant and super low maintenance.

 

[SharkBait]

So hypothetically if I disseminate white nationalist propoganda far and wide on Twitter, and some nut job decides to take in my message and do something terrible that's a nonissue for you?

Last I checked laws don't stop the lawless, the guns aren't going to magically disappear if they are outlawed, they are just going to become a bigger problem as now they'll all be completely unrecorded and untraceable to an owner.

For the record, I'm absolutely for stronger universal background checks and I'm not 100 percent anti red flag law, so long as you can show me an effective way of implementing them and not causing harm to legal owners. I'm not for a ban or strengthening of the nfa, or adding anything to it, which is the Biden plan.

If it is just pro white nationalist, I dont have an issue since that is free speech, shitty free speech, but covered under the first amendment. A call to action on the other hand (like yelling fire in a movie theater, or a call to arms) is not covered, so it should be prosecuted to the full amount.

So gun laws dont stop the lawless you say, so you want more laws?

Red flag laws are persecuting a crime before they happen, as a co worker in some states I could call the cops on you, and they would search and seize your property without due process. Thats the issue, ala minority report.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

If it is just pro white nationalist, I dont have an issue since that is free speech, shitty free speech, but covered under the first amendment. A call to action on the other hand (like yelling fire in a movie theater, or a call to arms) is not covered, so it should be prosecuted to the full amount.

So gun laws dont stop the lawless you say, so you want more laws?

Red flag laws are persecuting a crime before they happen, as a co worker in some states I could call the cops on you, and they would search and seize your property without due process. Thats the issue, ala minority report.

I differentiate between passing a law that'd be ineffective against gun crime and hurt normal citizens (bans, mag size limits etc) and one that has the ability to close a loophole (no background checks on private sales). It's kinda jacked that you need a background check at a store, but buying in a private sale completely circumvents that. I'd be totally willing to get on board with that, especially if it was in exchange for repealing portions of the nfa.

And that's exactly what I'm talking about on guarantees of no overreach and abuse on the red flag laws. Like has to be a little stronger proof than that. Like a direct household family member, close friend etc making the report that this person is a danger to themselves or others, as well as quick legal recourse to get your guns back should it be unnecessary or warrantless. If you are having a mental health crisis and aren't responsible enough for a period of time to possess a firearm I don't have a problem with you not having one and saving that individual and others from harm.

I'm not an expert, how you go about doing that I have no idea, so don't hit me with what ifs and slippery slope shit, I probably agree and realize there's situations thay get sticky with something like that, just on its face I don't think it's an awful idea.

 

[Shikaka]

I mean it's not like James Madison wrote in the Federalist Papers #46 that any U.S. Army that sought to oppress them would stand no chance because: “To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence.”

So obviously the founders envisioned a populace on par with the federal military.

It also hurts any gun control stance when the overwhelming majority of weapons used in crime are ill-gotten and the overwhelming majority of gun deaths are suicide.

Just make crime and suicie illegal.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

We have some King of the North bell peppers and small snackers too. They're super hungry plants so try to keep them a distance from others, like tomatoes.

A good one to look into also is ground cherries, awesome plant and super low maintenance.

I plan on putting on some raised beds over the winter for next spring. We have an olive tree, but that's about it right now.

 

[Dialoutmfer]

Trump stooges telling bold face lies about his health straight to the nation when he’s potentially incapacitated. Someone in that White House needs to grow some balls and tell the public what is going on. How the hell does anyone still support this guy? I’ve never seen such gross incompetence/flagrant disregard from the federal government and that’s saying something because the government mostly sucks.

I don’t know if the president is incapacitated or not. If he is there are procedures in place for that. There are also people that need to be notified. You aren’t one of them.

 

[Shikaka]

Alexander Hamilton wrote in the Federalist Papers #29 "To oblige the great body of the yeomanry, and of the other classes of the citizens, to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well-regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people, and a serious public inconvenience and loss."

The only reason we aren't Spartans essentially by culture is because the founders knew it would be an inconvenience to society.

In the same paper "Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the people at large, than to have them properly armed and equipped"

Notice it's the people who should be properly armed and equipped, not the militia.

I'll wrap up with James Madison again, this time calling gun control advocates out.
"
But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it. Let us not insult the free and gallant citizens of America with the suspicion, that they would be less able to defend the rights of which they would be in actual possession, than the debased subjects of arbitrary power would be to rescue theirs from the hands of their oppressors."

 

[Peter Gibbons]

I don’t know if the president is incapacitated or not. If he is there are procedures in place for that. There are also people that need to be notified. You aren’t one of them.

You don't think the American public should know about that?

I'm all for transparency in government personally. Pretty sure it's important to know who is running the show.

 

[32andBelow]

I don’t know if the president is incapacitated or not. If he is there are procedures in place for that. There are also people that need to be notified. You aren’t one of them.

The people should know who the fuck is currently in charge. You cannot be serious

 

[Billybob]

You don't think the American public should know about that?

I'm all for transparency in government personally. Pretty sure it's important to know who is running the show.

If Pence has to take over then they will swear him in and then announce it. This is the left wing version of the right wing saying RBG was already dead and the Democrats were trying to hide it until after the election. This isn’t a prime time cable TV show where they are covering up a huge conspiracy. If he can’t fulfill his duties then Pence will take over.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

If Pence has to take over then they will swear him in and then announce it. This is the left wing version of the right wing saying RBG was already dead and the Democrats were trying to hide it until after the election. This isn’t a prime time cable TV show where they are covering up a huge conspiracy. If he can’t fulfill his duties then Pence will take over.

I just reread what I wrote....no mention of him being dead or any overarching vast conspiracy, just the thought that the American public has a reasonable expectation to know wtf is going on, and the white house messaging has been anything but clear about the time line of his illness, how bad he is right now, his prognosis etc.

That seems like a big contradiction coming from the people who four years ago were screaming from the rooftops that Clinton was unfit for office because she was recovering from pneumonia and were demanding medical records and proof she wasn't dying and all that jazz, which I agreed with at that time as well.

We have a right to know if the dude with his finger on the button is suffering from fever dream hallucinations or on a ventilator or some shit so we can demand a temporary change in leadership if need be. I have zero faith that his cronies will do the right thing for the American public, as they've proved time and again they aren't capable or are unwilling to do so.

 

[CF]

I don’t know if the president is incapacitated or not. If he is there are procedures in place for that. There are also people that need to be notified. You aren’t one of them.

Okay Mr Civics professor explain to me this notification process.

 

[Billybob]

I just reread what I wrote....no mention of him being dead or any overarching vast conspiracy, just the thought that the American public has a reasonable expectation to know wtf is going on, and the white house messaging has been anything but clear about the time line of his illness, how bad he is right now, his prognosis etc.

That seems like a big contradiction coming from the people who four years ago were screaming from the rooftops that Clinton was unfit for office because she was recovering from pneumonia and were demanding medical records and proof she wasn't dying and all that jazz, which I agreed with at that time as well.

We have a right to know if the dude with his finger on the button is suffering from fever dream hallucinations or on a ventilator or some shit so we can demand a temporary change in leadership if need be. I have zero faith that his cronies will do the right thing for the American public, as they've proved time and again they aren't capable or are unwilling to do so.

The doctors literally came out and said he was doing fine. The MSM is trying to spin it to get more and more views and clicks, if they put “he is doing well” nobody would care. Where do the goalposts move now? The doctors are lying? This is a huge story and if he was unfit it would be leaked, again this isn’t the 24 tv show. Stop believing every “report” you hear

 

[32andBelow]

The doctors literally came out and said he was doing fine. The MSM is trying to spin it to get more and more views and clicks, if they put “he is doing well” nobody would care. Where do the goalposts move now? The doctors are lying? This is a huge story and if he was unfit it would be leaked, again this isn’t the 24 tv show. Stop believing every “report” you hear

His chief of staff freaking said the next 48 hours will be critical and his recovery isn’t ensured

 

[Peter Gibbons]

The doctors literally came out and said he was doing fine. The MSM is trying to spin it to get more and more views and clicks, if they put “he is doing well” nobody would care. Where do the goalposts move now? The doctors are lying? This is a huge story and if he was unfit it would be leaked, again this isn’t the 24 tv show. Stop believing every “report” you hear

Well, one Dr, and it's the same guy who says he was in perfect health and weighs 239 lbs. And this is coming from the same people who won't say why he made a late night trip to Walter Reed for the dude that clearly is suffering from occasional ambulatory issues. You'll have to forgive me for not having much faith in them.

I mean hell.... W's people told us when he choked on a pretzel and fell down the stairs.

Again, wanting to be well informed doesn't make me a conspiracy theorist. Now if I was inquiring if he was in the hospital getting new smoothskin grafted on to his lizard person body or getting a fresh shot of adrenochrome before the epstien supply runs out.... Talk to me then.