Shutdown Watch - 2023

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HurryUpandWait said:
Whatever happened to the bill NATCA pushed for that protected us from government shutdowns?
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Members from BOTH parties said no. We, NATCA, make too much noise during a shutdown. We, the FAA, has too big of a purse and the politicians didn’t want to lose control of all that money. We are too big of a bargaining chip.

Curse either side of the political isle, members on both sides said no because of the reasons above. NATCA pushed this bill hard.
 
Maybe we just need some hero contractor to "update" the NOTAM server files again...

Airplane Oops GIF
 
Soul_Controller said:
Incorrect. The leave isn't deducted from your bank. The law makes it so that the leave you take keeps you in a paid status for the purposes of backpay. As opposed to before the law, where not coming to work put you in a furlough (or awol) status and didn't guarantee any pay.
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Funny how confident you are when you haven't been through a shutdown since the law passed. The law is pretty clear. Now government employees can take their paid leave and be guaranteed they will be compensated for it during a shutdown. Non-essential employees are furloughed but back pay is guaranteed. Obviously the FAA isn't going to allow you to "call in furlough" for the day so you will be on sick leave, which will be deducted from your leave balance.

Back in the good ol days, when you couldn't take leave, any time off you took was furlough time with no guarantee of getting paid for it but come on, what politician is going to send people home and take their pay away? None of them, because that would cause actual pain and be political suicide. So we were able to bang out, be placed on furlough, and virtually be guaranteed back pay without being charged leave. That loophole has now ended.

They say if you ever want to know what a government bill actually does, just read the name and it accomplishes the opposite. The Government Employee Fair Treatment Act of 2019 is very unfair to those forced to work through the shutdown. While the nonessential folks get to take a free vacation with guaranteed back pay, everyone else has to work and get charged leave for time of per usual. Doesn't seem very fair to me.
 
Acquired Taste said:
Funny how confident you are when you haven't been through a shutdown since the law passed. The law is pretty clear. Now government employees can take their paid leave and be guaranteed they will be compensated for it during a shutdown. Non-essential employees are furloughed but back pay is guaranteed. Obviously the FAA isn't going to allow you to "call in furlough" for the day so you will be on sick leave, which will be deducted from your leave balance.

Back in the good ol days, when you couldn't take leave, any time off you took was furlough time with no guarantee of getting paid for it but come on, what politician is going to send people home and take their pay away? None of them, because that would cause actual pain and be political suicide. So we were able to bang out, be placed on furlough, and virtually be guaranteed back pay without being charged leave. That loophole has now ended.

They say if you ever want to know what a government bill actually does, just read the name and it accomplishes the opposite. The Government Employee Fair Treatment Act of 2019 is very unfair to those forced to work through the shutdown. While the nonessential folks get to take a free vacation with guaranteed back pay, everyone else has to work and get charged leave for time of per usual. Doesn't seem very fair to me.
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Approved absences are automatically coded as furlough. I had the reasoning backwards, but the FAA has no control over how it's coded, that's up to the employee. It's all in the opm memo, F2 being the relavent part.

Guidance for Shutdown Furloughs - OPM https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-ove...-guidance/guidance-for-shutdown-furloughs.pdf
 
Acquired Taste said:
Funny how confident you are when you haven't been through a shutdown since the law passed. The law is pretty clear. Now government employees can take their paid leave and be guaranteed they will be compensated for it during a shutdown. Non-essential employees are furloughed but back pay is guaranteed. Obviously the FAA isn't going to allow you to "call in furlough" for the day so you will be on sick leave, which will be deducted from your leave balance.

Back in the good ol days, when you couldn't take leave, any time off you took was furlough time with no guarantee of getting paid for it but come on, what politician is going to send people home and take their pay away? None of them, because that would cause actual pain and be political suicide. So we were able to bang out, be placed on furlough, and virtually be guaranteed back pay without being charged leave. That loophole has now ended.

They say if you ever want to know what a government bill actually does, just read the name and it accomplishes the opposite. The Government Employee Fair Treatment Act of 2019 is very unfair to those forced to work through the shutdown. While the nonessential folks get to take a free vacation with guaranteed back pay, everyone else has to work and get charged leave for time of per usual. Doesn't seem very fair to me.
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Again if u have to take nyquill

Soul_Controller said:
Approved absences are automatically coded as furlough. I had the reasoning backwards, but the FAA has no control over how it's coded, that's up to the employee. It's all in the opm memo, F2 being the relavent part.

Guidance for Shutdown Furloughs - OPM https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-ove...-guidance/guidance-for-shutdown-furloughs.pdf
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We expect that excepted employees
generally will not choose to use paid leave under 31 U.S.C. 1341(c)(3) because 31 U.S.C.
1341(c)(2) provides retroactive pay for furlough periods without charge to leave.
 
Soul_Controller said:
Approved absences are automatically coded as furlough. I had the reasoning backwards, but the FAA has no control over how it's coded, that's up to the employee. It's all in the opm memo, F2 being the relavent part.

Guidance for Shutdown Furloughs - OPM https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-ove...-guidance/guidance-for-shutdown-furloughs.pdf
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Key section that most of us probably care about (mainly 2nd paragraph for leave):


How is the “standard rate of pay” computed for employees whose work is excepted?
A. Employees who perform excepted work during a lapse in appropriations must receive retroactive pay for that work at the employee’s “standard rate of pay” (31 U.S.C. 1341(c)(2)). The “standard rate of pay” for excepted hours of work is the pay to which the employee normally is entitled for actual hours of work under the applicable pay rules. For example, if an excepted employee performs authorized overtime work beyond the normal requirements for his or her job, he/she will be paid for that actual authorized overtime work. All excepted hours of work are treated as time in a pay status for pay, leave, and benefit purposes.

Excepted employees who elect to use paid leave under 31 U.S.C. 1341(c)(3) to cover an authorized absence from work during a lapse in appropriations will receive pay for that leave under the normal leave rules when the lapse ends. (See Question F.2.) Consistent with the normal leave rules, an excepted employee may not use paid leave during periods when the employee is found to be absent without leave (AWOL). The standard rate of pay during AWOL periods is zero. If an otherwise excepted employee has an authorized absence from work during the lapse and elects not to use paid leave under 31 U.S.C. 1341(c)(3), the employee will be placed in furlough status during the authorized absence. The employee will be paid for the furlough time when the lapse ends as described in Questions D.3. and D.4. The employee will not be charged paid leave or other paid time off for authorized periods of absence from duty during the lapse, except as provided under 31 U.S.C. 1341(c)(3). (See Question F.2.)
 
Yay government!

I should’ve stayed being a loser by working the dairy and frozen department in my home town, living in a double wide, and marrying someone named Sammi Lynn who smokes P-Funks and watches Price is Right.
 
CoffeeIV said:
Key section that most of us probably care about (mainly 2nd paragraph for leave):


How is the “standard rate of pay” computed for employees whose work is excepted?
A. Employees who perform excepted work during a lapse in appropriations must receive retroactive pay for that work at the employee’s “standard rate of pay” (31 U.S.C. 1341(c)(2)). The “standard rate of pay” for excepted hours of work is the pay to which the employee normally is entitled for actual hours of work under the applicable pay rules. For example, if an excepted employee performs authorized overtime work beyond the normal requirements for his or her job, he/she will be paid for that actual authorized overtime work. All excepted hours of work are treated as time in a pay status for pay, leave, and benefit purposes.

Excepted employees who elect to use paid leave under 31 U.S.C. 1341(c)(3) to cover an authorized absence from work during a lapse in appropriations will receive pay for that leave under the normal leave rules when the lapse ends. (See Question F.2.) Consistent with the normal leave rules, an excepted employee may not use paid leave during periods when the employee is found to be absent without leave (AWOL). The standard rate of pay during AWOL periods is zero. If an otherwise excepted employee has an authorized absence from work during the lapse and elects not to use paid leave under 31 U.S.C. 1341(c)(3), the employee will be placed in furlough status during the authorized absence. The employee will be paid for the furlough time when the lapse ends as described in Questions D.3. and D.4. The employee will not be charged paid leave or other paid time off for authorized periods of absence from duty during the lapse, except as provided under 31 U.S.C. 1341(c)(3). (See Question F.2.)
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So what's your plan? Request sick leave and then say I want that to be furlough? Because the way I read it (not what you quoted specifially but other paragraphs in F2 and F2A), it might work for pre approved annual leave or if there's spot leave available, you can say show me on furlough. But if there's no staffing for spot leave, it sounds like you'd have to request leave under normal applicable procedures (i.e. sick leave), in which case the employee would be requesting a paid leave status which would be granted. The OPM expects people to use furlough instead because they acknowledge it's free leave, but it also sounds like you can't actually get the excused time off unless you bang out on sick leave, in which case it's not furlough anymore.
 
Acquired Taste said:
So what's your plan? Request sick leave and then say I want that to be furlough? Because the way I read it (not what you quoted specifially but other paragraphs in F2 and F2A), it might work for pre approved annual leave or if there's spot leave available, you can say show me on furlough. But if there's no staffing for spot leave, it sounds like you'd have to request leave under normal applicable procedures (i.e. sick leave), in which case the employee would be requesting a paid leave status which would be granted. The OPM expects people to use furlough instead because they acknowledge it's free leave, but it also sounds like you can't actually get the excused time off unless you bang out on sick leave, in which case it's not furlough anymore.
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Further down the question F. 2. goes into more detail. This part kind of answers your question I think but there are several paragraphs and context is probably key:

"If that off-duty time cannot be accommodated by workplace flexibilities, the excepted employee will be placed in a furlough status for any approved absence unless the employee requests to use paid leave under 31 U.S.C. 1341(c)(3). We expect that excepted employees generally will not choose to use paid leave under 31 U.S.C. 1341(c)(3) because 31 U.S.C. 1341(c)(2) provides retroactive pay for furlough periods without charge to leave."


I find it all confusing.
 
CoffeeIV said:
Further down the question F. 2. goes into more detail. This part kind of answers your question I think but there are several paragraphs and context is probably key:

"If that off-duty time cannot be accommodated by workplace flexibilities, the excepted employee will be placed in a furlough status for any approved absence unless the employee requests to use paid leave under 31 U.S.C. 1341(c)(3). We expect that excepted employees generally will not choose to use paid leave under 31 U.S.C. 1341(c)(3) because 31 U.S.C. 1341(c)(2) provides retroactive pay for furlough periods without charge to leave."


I find it all confusing.
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Yes, this is the part that got me. Which is why I think unless there's spot leave available to request an "approved absence" and ask to be furloughed, the employee has to request sick leave which would be them "requesting to use paid leave."
 
Acquired Taste said:
Yes, this is the part that got me. Which is why I think unless there's spot leave available to request an "approved absence" and ask to be furloughed, the employee has to request sick leave which would be them "requesting to use paid leave."
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Would it be safe to assume it could transpire like the following?

*On a recorded line*
Controller: "I am incapacitated due to illness and am requesting furlough instead of sick leave for my shift today."
Supervisor/OMIC: "Furlough is denied."
Controller: "You are denying my use of furlough for an approved absence; I must now use sick leave as I am incapacitated due to illness and unable to come in for my shift."

Controller files grievance.

Also, me: *laughs in non-essential*.
 
Logical_Mongoose said:
Would it be safe to assume it could transpire like the following?

*On a recorded line*
Controller: "I am incapacitated due to illness and am requesting furlough instead of sick leave for my shift today."
Supervisor/OMIC: "Furlough is denied."
Controller: "You are denying my use of furlough for an approved absence; I must now use sick leave as I am incapacitated due to illness and unable to come in for my shift."

Controller files grievance.

Also, me: *laughs in non-essential*.
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Well played Sir, well played. Sadly I am essential *cries*
 
If you’re still a Republican at this point, you’re either a bad person or a stupid person.

They offer no solutions, obstruct, waste money, and have been the reason for nearly every shutdown we’ve had recently - either by their own actions or their outlandish demands being uncompromisable. This shutdown, if it happens, will only hurt their own successes in the upcoming election, so I’m sure they’ll cave at a point.
 
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