The FAA staffing problem that NO ONE is talking about

spider

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I highly doubt any Core 30 CPC would be RIF’d before a non-Core CPC. Purely speculative, of course...but I think Levels 4-6 would be in serious jeopardy of existing and CPC-IT’s will also be lumped with trainees.

Yeah, I don't think we are at risk currently but Delta is starting to pull back again and I think other airlines might follow suit given the recent flare ups and Cali going back into lockdown. RIF won't even be considered till closer to September. No government agency is going to make cuts to positions that are already funded. The "UCIS" or whatever the damn initials are is a way different beast. Their funding is similar to ours but definitely not identical. Plus that's a highly contested agency amongst politicians. No one can argue ATC being unnecessary..... Yet! Not even the privatization folks.

I don’t think it’s highly contested. It’s confusing but this involves US Citizenship and Immigration Services which actual citizenship and immigration (which overall is down). ICE is US Immigrations and Customs Enforcement.
 

Alpha_bravo2

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I highly doubt any Core 30 CPC would be RIF’d before a non-Core CPC. Purely speculative, of course...but I think Levels 4-6 would be in serious jeopardy of existing and CPC-IT’s will also be lumped with trainees.
I can agree to this in a sense but think of all the core 30 CPC that are on special details/work TMU that wouldn't be able to fully certify etc. If it came to it I could definitely see the Agency taking a closer look at the 4&5 tower onlys, and consolidating more low level up downs. I don't think the majority of the level 6 tower onlys are in danger of closing. I can only speak about my tower but our numbers haven't taken a huge hit, and we have pretty close to all of our air carrier ops back.
 

mnsalty

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Easily run ATC for now.. Our area has had 8 people retire and 1 person CPC in the last year, and it’s just going to get worse.

this is a problem NATCA is quite literally creating right now, backed by 99% of CPCs. Let’s do it. Seriously, bring it on.

I can agree to this in a sense but think of all the core 30 CPC that are on special details/work TMU that wouldn't be able to fully certify etc. If it came to it I could definitely see the Agency taking a closer look at the 4&5 tower onlys, and consolidating more low level up downs. I don't think the majority of the level 6 tower onlys are in danger of closing. I can only speak about my tower but our numbers haven't taken a huge hit, and we have pretty close to all of our air carrier ops back.

consolidations or closings take upwards of a year - sometimes several. Furloughs provide a quick way to stop money from seeping out. Or stop paying raises. Cut differentials. Cut CIP. So many other ways that are far faster and easier to cut before closing entire facilities - which have costs associated with them anyways - further complicated by COVID.
 

twn

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Nobody is getting furloughed, stop worrying about it. Did you fail to remember we are at an all time low staffing crisis before covid happened? Traffic is picking way back up. Id say normal traffic after Nov 4th when coronavirus mysterious is no longer relevant.
 

Alpha_bravo2

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consolidations or closings take upwards of a year - sometimes several. Furloughs provide a quick way to stop money from seeping out. Or stop paying raises. Cut differentials. Cut CIP. So many other ways that are far faster and easier to cut before closing entire facilities - which have costs associated with them anyways - further complicated by COVID.
Sure they are quick and easy but 804s are a permanent solution. But then again I don't think furloughs will happen.
 

mnsalty

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Sure they are quick and easy but 804s are a permanent solution. But then again I don't think furloughs will happen.

we don’t need a permanent solution. Traffic will come back EVENTUALLY. Unless a facility was already on track for a a downgrade or consolidation I highly doubt it’ll be on the table due to COVID.

what’s likely is a sweeping budget cut for the upcoming years and the FAA won’t be immune to that. Furloughs would be the drastic end of that. I’d be extremely surprised if we saw absolutely no changes financially as a result of this. If you think we are 100% immune when every other agency, at every level, and every private business is being affected, you’re crazy.
 

32andBelow

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we don’t need a permanent solution. Traffic will come back EVENTUALLY. Unless a facility was already on track for a a downgrade or consolidation I highly doubt it’ll be on the table due to COVID.

what’s likely is a sweeping budget cut for the upcoming years and the FAA won’t be immune to that. Furloughs would be the drastic end of that. I’d be extremely surprised if we saw absolutely no changes financially as a result of this. If you think we are 100% immune when every other agency, at every level, and every private business is being affected, you’re crazy.
They can constructively furlough tho. They are still hiring. And ppl are still retiring.
 

AJ4240

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They can constructively furlough tho. They are still hiring. And ppl are still retiring.
That's because we are already funded this year to do so. But yes, come September, hiring freeze and early retirement would be the first option I'm sure. Furlough and RIF would be the extreme. Sadly, I think our fate might be decided by a damn middle row seat haha. No profits... No reason to keep flying.
 

32andBelow

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That's because we are already funded this year to do so. But yes, come September, hiring freeze and early retirement would be the first option I'm sure. Furlough and RIF would be the extreme. Sadly, I think our fate might be decided by a damn middle row seat haha. No profits... No reason to keep flying.
Airlines are also posturing to get more bailouts. So don’t expect any good press releases. Airlines like frontier and JetBlue and southwest are Angeling to steal markets during this.
 

DankVectorz

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Alpha_bravo2

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we don’t need a permanent solution. Traffic will come back EVENTUALLY. Unless a facility was already on track for a a downgrade or consolidation I highly doubt it’ll be on the table due to COVID.

what’s likely is a sweeping budget cut for the upcoming years and the FAA won’t be immune to that. Furloughs would be the drastic end of that. I’d be extremely surprised if we saw absolutely no changes financially as a result of this. If you think we are 100% immune when every other agency, at every level, and every private business is being affected, you’re crazy.
Never said I think we are immune to budget cuts or anything else I just don't believe furloughs for controllers will happen to the extent y'all think it will.
Sure the agency may take hits but there are so many non essential position's that aren't 2152 that should be cut before us.
 

Mike Kilo

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Here’s a thought. What happens if you are furloughed over the new year and are out when the presidential raise goes through? The June raise???? ?
 

AJ4240

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So at the end of the day we land on it could happen or it could not happen haha. I just won't be sitting here comfy in my trainee job security as long as McConnell's henchman/wife is the driving factor. Especially when this is probably the best time to make a privatization switch if that's what they really want. The system is already shot to hell why not at this point? At the end of the day though it's NATCA's silence that is speaking volumes regarding the future of training. We may be 20-25% of the union but it's still the bottom 20-25%. Some times you just cut off the leg. But, I still hope I'm wrong. Just not going to blindly hope that I can trust politicians (NATCA included) to keep my non-essential self out of the fire. Starting saving your nickels and dimes now.
 

mnsalty

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Never said I think we are immune to budget cuts or anything else I just don't believe furloughs for controllers will happen to the extent y'all think it will.
Sure the agency may take hits but there are so many non essential position's that aren't 2152 that should be cut before us.

whatever gets you to sleep at night. It’s a pretty complex system and I don’t think anyone is realizing how big this is gonna get.

So at the end of the day we land on it could happen or it could not happen haha. I just won't be sitting here comfy in my trainee job security as long as McConnell's henchman/wife is the driving factor. Especially when this is probably the best time to make a privatization switch if that's what they really want. The system is already shot to hell why not at this point? At the end of the day though it's NATCA's silence that is speaking volumes regarding the future of training. We may be 20-25% of the union but it's still the bottom 20-25%. Some times you just cut off the leg. But, I still hope I'm wrong. Just not going to blindly hope that I can trust politicians (NATCA included) to keep my non-essential self out of the fire. Starting saving your nickels and dimes now.

people keep throwing out 20% numbers of natca. Where is this coming from? By my estimation - non essential trainees make up less than 5-7% of the BUEs.
 

DankVectorz

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At the end of the day though it's NATCA's silence that is speaking volumes regarding the future of training.

I mean honestly what do you want them to say? “We have no idea what is going to happen with training or when you will start again.”. Would that make you feel better? Would you prefer speculation? It’s a pandemic, not some budgetary issue.
 

32andBelow

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people keep throwing out 20% numbers of natca. Where is this coming from? By my estimation - non essential trainees make up less than 5-7% of the BUEs.
Stinger or someone said 20% of controllers are trainees. That would be a lil low at my facility. Probably closer to 30%
 

Ad1234

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people keep throwing out 20% numbers of natca. Where is this coming from? By my estimation - non essential trainees make up less than 5-7% of the BUEs.
The numbers are on the PPT. I don’t have it in front of me but there are approx 3500 trainees and 10,800 Cpcs. These are BUEs, doesn’t matter if they are in natca, natca fights for them wether they pay dues or not, they just don’t get a voice within the union.
 

AJ4240

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I have no idea where the 20% came from. Just a repeat on that number. But as far as NATCA goes, silence is deafening. Even in a tailspin of uncertainty good leadership should make it known they have your back. I understand entirely taking us out of facilities to add one extra layer of protection for CPC's. But, that's no excuse for the crickets. Shouldn't need to come to this site for updates on what they're trying to accomplish. Face mask or whatever it is. That should be sent in our lovely here's what we did for today emails.
 

DankVectorz

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When people lose their jobs and can't afford the rent, it's in the landlords best interest to rent at lower rate to at least get whatever income the demand will bring as opposed to getting no income at all.

See that’s the problem with this area. Demand far outweighs supply. There is always people who are willing and able to pay. Housing prices are actually up 8% on LI because so many people from the city decided after quarantine they want a backyard. Remember, 10% of the population of the US lives within 100 miles of NYC.
 
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