The woeful unpreparedness of Management

[JNev]

Their hazard pay still doesn’t equate to what some of us make. And you won’t die talking to airplanes.

You won’t die talking to airplanes but you could very easily die talking to airplanes while a sick coworker coughs on you and your weakened immune system succumbs to a virus that has shuttered airlines and businesses across the world

 

[PushingTin]

Y'all are a bunch of cry babies. There’s state/county/local governments that haven’t given ANY guidance to their employees (my wife’s situation). We have the benefit of being paid and not loosing our jobs. Take some sick leave or LWOP if you’re really that worried about it.

It’s a pandemic, they can’t send 46,000 of us home instantly. Just like first responders are all still working, we still have a service to provide.

Oh its one of the #BestJobinTheWorld guys! YEs lets jam facilities full of as many humans as possible to breathe all over each other in times of a worldwide Pandemic and hope for the best. We are so lucky to work for people who dont care about our health and safety. Other people have it worse, therefore we cant complain or pointout legit problems. Im sooooo lucky to have this job! I just parachuted in via immaculate conception I dont even remember my childhood i think i might just be a lucky AI who was created for the lucky position of controller where nothing could be better. No one worked hard to be here or spent years of their life toiling to get where they want to be.

I feel bad for you that you feel so lowly of yourself and the expectations for your workplace. I want better. You are prob that guy who rolls their eyes when someones says "ive been on position over 2 hours" or "i got skipped for OT". We could be shoveling shit afterall

 

[Hissmeowra]

Y'all are a bunch of cry babies. There’s state/county/local governments that haven’t given ANY guidance to their employees (my wife’s situation). We have the benefit of being paid and not loosing our jobs. Take some sick leave or LWOP if you’re really that worried about it.

It’s a pandemic, they can’t send 46,000 of us home instantly. Just like first responders are all still working, we still have a service to provide.

If your state/county/local government hasn't provided any guidance at this late hour, that's a major failing. That the FAA hasn't been doing *quite* as badly isn't supposed to be a point of pride. Meanwhile the governors of some states have been proactive, with daily press briefings and containment/mitigation measures put out days before the federal government even considered them. That's the standard we should expect and demand, and we aren't wrong to be upset if it isn't being met.

 

[CF]

Their hazard pay still doesn’t equate to what some of us make. And you won’t die talking to airplanes.

Have you ever seen what firemen in larger cities and counties make?

 

[NavyTrev]

If your state/county/local government hasn't provided any guidance at this late hour, that's a major failing. That the FAA hasn't been doing *quite* as badly isn't supposed to be a point of pride. Meanwhile the governors of some states have been proactive, with daily press briefings and containment/mitigation measures put out days before the federal government even considered them. That's the standard we should expect and demand, and we aren't wrong to be upset if it isn't being met.

The governor has put out his guidance but still the civilian workforce is given nothing. First responders were told their leave is cancelled, shave and be in uniform ready to go.
My facility has been fairly proactive, there’s cleaning materials everywhere, longer rotations to minimize controller change out, controllers being sent home if they are sick, local NATCA has been pumping out info constantly. Our physicals have been moved to a less populated town, the ATM met with us today and briefed us on things to expect.

 

[GulfCharlie]

Oh its one of the #BestJobinTheWorld guys! YEs lets jam facilities full of as many humans as possible to breathe all over each other in times of a worldwide Pandemic and hope for the best. We are so lucky to work for people who dont care about our health and safety. Other people have it worse, therefore we cant complain or pointout legit problems. Im sooooo lucky to have this job! I just parachuted in via immaculate conception I dont even remember my childhood i think i might just be a lucky AI who was created for the lucky position of controller where nothing could be better. No one worked hard to be here or spent years of their life toiling to get where they want to be.

I feel bad for you that you feel so lowly of yourself and the expectations for your workplace. I want better. You are prob that guy who rolls their eyes when someones says "ive been on position over 2 hours" or "i got skipped for OT". We could be shoveling shit afterall

Little less of that NATCA KoolAid bro ?

Have you ever seen what firemen in larger cities and counties make?

Considering the other half of my family lives in NYC, yes I have and it is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[thesoonerkid]

Our ATM equated our job with that of Fire Fighters... Fairly certain Fire Fighters get hazard pay ?‍♂️

they also don’t work with just 1 or 2 on the graveyard shift either

 

[NavyTrev]

Have you ever seen what firemen in larger cities and counties make?

The magical land of the internet claims median highest paid firefighters NJ, NY, CA is $80,000. With OT and LA I know some make 100k in OT alone, still below our average highest paid.

 

[Hissmeowra]

The governor has put out his guidance but still the civilian workforce is given nothing. First responders were told their leave is cancelled, shave and be in uniform ready to go.
My facility has been fairly proactive, there’s cleaning materials everywhere, longer rotations to minimize controller change out, controllers being sent home if they are sick, local NATCA has been pumping out info constantly. Our physicals have been moved to a less populated town, the ATM met with us today and briefed us on things to expect.

Meanwhile my facility has people who refuse to wash their hands before touching everything because "too much work". It's in situations like these where some clear guidance from management would be useful.

 

[Electricfence]

Meanwhile my facility has people who refuse to wash their hands before touching everything because "too much work". It's in situations like these where some clear guidance from management would be useful.

since when is clear guidance from management ever followed 100%? there are always those who complain it isn't clear or they want it differently. so even that wouldn't be clear for some.

 

[PushingTin]

The magical land of the internet claims median highest paid firefighters NJ, NY, CA is $80,000. With OT and LA I know some make 100k in OT alone, still below our average highest paid.

wow. go check the facility downgrades thread and tell those guys that.

 

[NavyTrev]

Oh its one of the #BestJobinTheWorld guys! YEs lets jam facilities full of as many humans as possible to breathe all over each other in times of a worldwide Pandemic and hope for the best. We are so lucky to work for people who dont care about our health and safety. Other people have it worse, therefore we cant complain or pointout legit problems. Im sooooo lucky to have this job! I just parachuted in via immaculate conception I dont even remember my childhood i think i might just be a lucky AI who was created for the lucky position of controller where nothing could be better. No one worked hard to be here or spent years of their life toiling to get where they want to be.

I feel bad for you that you feel so lowly of yourself and the expectations for your workplace. I want better. You are prob that guy who rolls their eyes when someones says "ive been on position over 2 hours" or "i got skipped for OT". We could be shoveling shit afterall

Nah I’m the guy that’s confident in my abilities, if I need something I provide for myself. I’ll take all 73 days of leave I have on the books if I really feel that my health is in jeopardy. Nah I’m that guy that will file a grievance against the agency, I have before and I won it when my ATM violated the National release policy.
People just bitch moan and complain about anything, things are being done. NATCA works a ton behind the scenes. That’s your locals fault if they aren’t pushing info out, ours is. The ball is rolling, give it a minute, they can’t just freeze ATC.

 

[GulfCharlie]

The magical land of the internet claims median highest paid firefighters NJ, NY, CA is $80,000. With OT and LA I know some make 100k in OT alone, still below our average highest paid.

Roughly what the average level 6 controller makes, but they make big bucks on the OT, granted I cannot speak for NJ or CA.

I will say this though, when their crews rush into a burning building the crew lead follows them instead of seeming himself nonessential and sipping scotch back home while acting a “yes man” for the district.

 

[NavyTrev]

wow. go check the facility downgrades thread and tell those guys that.

I’ve been downgraded before, and made a lot less than a lvl 4 doing a lot more ATC than some of these lvl 12 towers.

 

[Bandit117]

Y'all are a bunch of cry babies. There’s state/county/local governments that haven’t given ANY guidance to their employees (my wife’s situation). Also barred from taking any leave. We have the benefit of being paid and not loosing our jobs. Take some sick leave or LWOP if you’re really that worried about it.

It’s a pandemic, they can’t send 46,000 of us home instantly. Just like first responders are all working, we still have a service to provide.

And you’d be wrong kiddo. Training isn’t a service, that’s a 2nd tier ATC operation. There’s no need for anyone who can’t work traffic without supervision to be working right now. It’s called flattening the curve. Non tower CIC tower only certified developmentals could stay home from all the up/downs and it would have zero impact on service, but would serve to help flatten the curve, like the CDC is begging everyone to do their part to help do. The president has ordered federal agencies to scale back unnecessary activities while still providing services. This has nothing to do with who has it tougher, this is basic epidemiology. People who are not operational and people who less useful to the operation don’t need to be in it. The less people you have mulling about, the less likely an exposure can spread. This is about preserving core functions and ATC services for the long term during the crisis, period end. It’s going to get worse before it gets better.

 

[GulfCharlie]

Nah I’m the guy that’s confident in my abilities, if I need something I provide for myself. I’ll take all 73 days of leave I have on the books if I really feel that my health is in jeopardy. Nah I’m that guy that will file a grievance against the agency, I have before and I won it when my ATM violated the National release policy.
People just bitch moan and complain about anything, things are being done. NATCA works a ton behind the scenes. That’s your locals fault if they aren’t pushing info out, ours is. The ball is rolling, give it a minute, they can’t just freeze ATC.

They can and they should, ground everything except cargo and MEDVAC’s. This will spiral out of control and they need to get out ahead of it while they can. Instead they are more worried about people scamming the system in the here and now instead of long term health consequences. If you shut it down now, run bare bones staff, rotate people through, soliciting volunteers it can be done. This game of fucking us over until 1/2 the facility is sick will force their hand eventually.

 

[Bandit117]

Y'all are a bunch of cry babies. There’s state/county/local governments that haven’t given ANY guidance to their employees (my wife’s situation). Also barred from taking any leave. We have the benefit of being paid and not loosing our jobs. Take some sick leave or LWOP if you’re really that worried about it.

It’s a pandemic, they can’t send 46,000 of us home instantly. Just like first responders are all working, we still have a service to provide.

And it’s not JUST a pandemic, 20-30% of people who recover are reporting some loss of lung capacity. Even if you don’t die, this can potentially cripple you. You sort of sound like one of those people saying “oh it’s just the flu, NBD”

 

[NavyTrev]

And it’s not JUST a pandemic, 20-30% of people who recover are reporting some loss of lung capacity. Even if you don’t die, this can potentially cripple you. You sort of sound like one of those people saying “oh it’s just the flu, NBD”

That’s a severely inaccurate assumption.

And you’d be wrong kiddo. Training isn’t a service, that’s a 2nd tier ATC operation. There’s no need for anyone who can’t work traffic without supervision to be working right now. It’s called flattening the curve. Non tower CIC tower only certified developmentals could stay home from all the up/downs and it would have zero impact on service, but would serve to help flatten the curve, like the CDC is begging everyone to do their part to help do. The president has ordered federal agencies to scale back unnecessary activities while still providing services. This has nothing to do with who has it tougher, this is basic epidemiology. People who are not operational and people who less useful to the operation don’t need to be in it. The less people you have mulling about, the less likely an exposure can spread. This is about preserving core functions and ATC services for the long term during the crisis, period end. It’s going to get worse before it gets better.

Wasn’t training suspended today honey?

View attachment 3538

An oldie but a beauty:

Party Time at the FAA; Critics Question $5 Million Gathering

One FAA manager told an ABC News undercover reporter, "Anytime you get a bunch of FAA guys together, it is nothing but a party." Another said, "It beats being at work."

At the end of one day of meetings, an FAA manager said he and others were about to head out "to dance on tables shortly." He boasted he was "almost arrested" for being drunk and "dancing on the tables" at the last such FAA managers gathering in St. Louis in 2006.

Another conference attendee asked a female ABC News undercover reporter if she was a "hooker" because "I was ready to reach for my wallet."

It's all fun and games until someone is on a ventilator.

Facilities are going to help them make their decisions for them.

Management and RVP insisted we did not have close enough contact with the Tech Ops guy that tested positive, even though we share a kitchen ad bathrooms. I got a Doctor's note that said I should quarantine for 2 weeks. Was told that was not enough to convince the powers that be, that the letter had to be from a "Public Health Official." So I did some legwork and was more than happy to send my RVP a letter from the NYC Department of Health official who has slightly more medical experience who concurred and insisted a 2 week quarantine starting as of yesterday. See you in 2 weeks!

I know a couple immuno compromised people who got the 2 weeks in other states by contacting the state health officials and getting a letter to Give the ATM. Are your coworkers doing this as well? They should!

 

[JNev]

Wasn’t training suspended today?

The Training Initiative was, but if you refuse training in ATC good luck ever hearing the end of it. Pointless

 

[NavyTrev]

The Training Initiative was, but if you refuse training in ATC good lick ever hearing the end of it. Pointless

The email natca sent me today was the OJTI and the developmental must both agree to train for it to happen.

I’m currently a CPC-IT and I’m not training until it’s over.