Weekly NATCA update

[Shikaka]

The en route and terminal bids should be split because they are totally different unrelated jobs.

Terminal washout should be offered chances at En Route, you're welcome for my contribution to fix the staffing issue.

 

[32andBelow]

Terminal washout should be offered chances at En Route, you're welcome for my contribution to fix the staffing issue.

If you can’t remember 3 taxi ways then you are cooked.

 

[Shikaka]

If you can’t remember 3 taxi ways then you are cooked.

There's a lot more to it than that, the terminal side of the house works more in the gray parts of the .65. Terminal washout should get en route options when they wash.

 

[32andBelow]

There's a lot more to it than that, the terminal side of the house works more in the gray parts of the .65. Terminal washout should get en route options when they wash.

 

[Spoony90]

There's a lot more to it than that, the terminal side of the house works more in the gray parts of the .65. Terminal washout should get en route options when they wash.

Especially the up/downs
The up/downs that are busy and have complex airspace

 

[Shikaka]

32andBelow I'm guessing you don't necessarily understand, En Route is a very structural and procedural form of ATC, Towers and Tracons are vastly different in regards to structure and procedure. A person who isn't capable of the flexible critical thinking required in a Terminal environment would be better served in a more rigid procedural environment such as En Route.

 

[DankVectorz]

any terminal washouts going to center would have to go back to the academy. This would just take up slots from people who haven’t washed out yet. I am completely against this until there is enough room in the academy to process new hires thoroughly first. That won’t happen with only one short staffed Academy. Washouts had their chance, couldn’t do it, goodbye. You’d wind up with people with 8 years seniority and haven’t CPC’d yet.

 

[Nothanks]

There's a lot more to it than that, the terminal side of the house works more in the gray parts of the .65. Terminal washout should get en route options when they wash.

7 and below terminal washouts go to a center ? No they shouldn’t

 

[ajmezz]

any terminal washouts going to center would have to go back to the academy. This would just take up slots from people who haven’t washed out yet. I am completely against this until there is enough room in the academy to process new hires thoroughly first. That won’t happen with only one short staffed Academy. Washouts had their chance, couldn’t do it, goodbye. You’d wind up with people with 8 years seniority and haven’t CPC’d yet.

Center washouts have to go to the academy for tower so it’s a process that already happens.

 

[DankVectorz]

Center washouts have to go to the academy for tower so it’s a process that already happens.

Good point didn’t think of that

 

[Dontbotherme]

How about everyone goes to a level 8 or below and actual know where they are going prior to going to the academy. Then, after certifying at their facility and spending say a minimum of one year as a CPC, they are allowed to bid to higher level facilities that they qualify for based on previous experience. Example: no tower only background people leaving MKC to go to ZDC without going to an up/down first to gain radar experience. Allow moves up to four levels higher than the facility you’re currently at. Get rid of the NCEPT releases guidelines and go back to the way places like N90 did it, one release per six months to whomever secures an offer letter. Allow more releases per six months of staffing allows. Force the Agency to continually staff the controller ranks and certain facilities through paid moves and other incentives.

 

[wrench978]

You’d wind up with people with 8 years seniority and haven’t CPC’d yet.

That already happens. We have a 7 year trainee. 1st and only facility. A couple TRBs and still no CPC. He got into the agency before me and I ended training him…

 

[KP-ATC]

That already happens. We have a 7 year trainee. 1st and only facility. A couple TRBs and still no CPC. He got into the agency before me and I ended training him…

You've got nothing on someone at Y90 right now.

 

[Spoony90]

That already happens. We have a 7 year trainee. 1st and only facility. A couple TRBs and still no CPC. He got into the agency before me and I ended training him…

FAA is full of people like that. Just wasting peoples time. CPCs be working 6 day work weeks while trainees scam to not CPC so they can have their weekends and holidays off while CPCs pull their weight

 

[GroundClutter]

32andBelow I'm guessing you don't necessarily understand, En Route is a very structural and procedural form of ATC, Towers and Tracons are vastly different in regards to structure and procedure. A person who isn't capable of the flexible critical thinking required in a Terminal environment would be better served in a more rigid procedural environment such as En Route.

I know places like ZTL is very structured but we own to the ground in all of our center outside of Approach Controls.

Some areas have steady low traffic with approaches sequencing that would rival a slow Tracon. You're 100% correct in your assessment that it's much more dynamic and a lot of it is shooting from the hip on busy sessions.

 

[HurryUpandWait]

How about everyone goes to a level 8 or below and actual know where they are going prior to going to the academy. Then, after certifying at their facility and spending say a minimum of one year as a CPC, they are allowed to bid to higher level facilities that they qualify for based on previous experience. Example: no tower only background people leaving MKC to go to ZDC without going to an up/down first to gain radar experience. Allow moves up to four levels higher than the facility you’re currently at. Get rid of the NCEPT releases guidelines and go back to the way places like N90 did it, one release per six months to whomever secures an offer letter. Allow more releases per six months of staffing allows. Force the Agency to continually staff the controller ranks and certain facilities through paid moves and other incentives.

There is a million creative changes NATCA/FAA could do. I gave up hope in them changing anything. Because they have to admit the current system isn't working which is difficult for them to do.

Still waiting on a rebuttal from NATCA about the average controller making 160k. NATCA was damn quick to rebuttal the President about DEI (which is great) but silence when the mid-level and below are taking payouts from the military or competitive wages with fast food managers.

 

[32andBelow]

32andBelow I'm guessing you don't necessarily understand, En Route is a very structural and procedural form of ATC, Towers and Tracons are vastly different in regards to structure and procedure. A person who isn't capable of the flexible critical thinking required in a Terminal environment would be better served in a more rigid procedural environment such as En Route.

Some sectors are and other sectors are total gong shows. In still stand by my statement. But as I said it should be 2 different ones and bids and you can apply for the other bid after you wash out if you want.

Plus people would just wash on purpose

 

[HammerHead]

There's a lot more to it than that, the terminal side of the house works more in the gray parts of the .65. Terminal washout should get en route options when they wash.

I think this is a booty take. Maybe if you wash at an 8/9. 6 and below, the volume just isn't there. You can't make that work, you're not making it through the academy for enroute. It should be the other way around. You wash from enroute, you should get a shot at terminal.

Don't care about the different environments. Level 6 is still level 6.

 

[Move78]

any terminal washouts going to center would have to go back to the academy. This would just take up slots from people who haven’t washed out yet.

Don’t the Z washouts going to tower have to go to the tower academy as well?

I am completely against this until there is enough room in the academy to process new hires thoroughly first. That won’t happen with only one short staffed Academy. Washouts had their chance, couldn’t do it, goodbye.

Best we can do is any 4-7 you want in the entire country. Washing out is a better way to move location than NCEPT is and it’s the best way to position yourself for future NCEPT.

You’d wind up with people with 8 years seniority and haven’t CPC’d yet.

There’s lots of these out there and it can get even more insane if you get CPC somewhere then you can bounce around NEST for the next 10 years because being eligible for termination after 2 straight training failures really only applies to new hires in practice.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

I know places like ZTL is very structured but we own to the ground in all of our center outside of Approach Controls.

ZTL out here catching strays