Will NATCA and the FAA extend the contract?

[Nothanks]

It’s not a “new department”, it’s an outside consulting gig on how to run the government as a corporation.

As an aside; if we are privatized can we finally strike?

no. No one will let us strike. Especially the Republican Party

 

[Phanatical]

Whoever is left after DOGE gets rid off all the federal employees whose SSN begins or ends with an odd digit might get a pay raise.

 

[CoffeeIV]

An outside department for "government efficiency" just sounds like a new way to funnel money from the government to Elon Musk.

Draining the swamp huh.

 

[bton]

All I can really say is if my pension is in tact, I'm not "at-will", and my pay hasn't gone down (beyond what inflation does to it---- but it's physically impossible for us to have inflation under Trump, so no worries there) ..... if all that is true after 4 years,, I'll call it a massive win.

Agreed... Only problem is those are exactly the items on the chopping block.

Whoever is left after DOGE gets rid off all the federal employees whose SSN begins or ends with an odd digit might get a pay raise.

You are drinking some very strong Kool-Aid.

 

[LennyA21]

“worst case scenario is we lose article 2 time and office space“ - some retard on the internet.
I can’t believe they let you control air traffic.

You can still represent without that A2 time. Do it for the love of labor!

Best case? Nick gets an extension in the next 2 months. Highly unlikely.

Worst case, Trump implements his EOs, we "don't negotiate in a timely manner" per his EOs, then the Agency then imposes a contract that makes the white book look desirable.

show me which EO says the agency gets to impose a contract on us without going to binding arbitration.

“worst case scenario is we lose article 2 time and office space“ - some retard on the internet.
I can’t believe they let you control air traffic.

The union says we’re supporting Hillary because Trump won’t win. They were wrong. The union says we need to extend because Trump might win. They were wrong. The union says we have to extend because the EOs are definitely coming back and for sure we’ll be screwed this time. Maybe, just maybe the union could be wrong with their track record. I got an email that says we have a Natca majority in Congress that’s stronger than ever. Maybe just maybe the union needs to start working and that involves working when it’s difficult.

There is no court or labor authority that will rule an executive order forbidding negotiations of permissive subjects is legal. It was already ruled that way by a court but overturned because the appeals court said it had to goto the FLRA first. The fear mongering of the party cult crew is ridiculous. Extend the contract for 50 years then and reduce dues to a dollar. You don’t need to be out partying the union needs to be working.

 

[bton]

You can still represent without that A2 time. Do it for the love of labor!

show me which EO says the agency gets to impose a contract on us without going to binding arbitration.

You clearly were not around when Dubya imposed the white book and were employed under it's reign. Whenever the right controls the policy making... federal pay, benefits, and working conditions get put on the chopping block. That does not happen when the left has majority. 40% raises are unrealistic but the left keeps the food on the table. The more you vote R, the closer you get to letting the leopard eat your face. Why vote for a group that constantly puts your pay and benefits under fire?

 

[Soul_Controller]

The union says we’re supporting Hillary because Trump won’t win. They were wrong. The union says we need to extend because Trump might win. They were wrong. The union says we have to extend because the EOs are definitely coming back and for sure we’ll be screwed this time. Maybe, just maybe the union could be wrong with their track record. I got an email that says we have a Natca majority in Congress that’s stronger than ever. Maybe just maybe the union needs to start working and that involves working when it’s difficult.

There is no court or labor authority that will rule an executive order forbidding negotiations of permissive subjects is legal. It was already ruled that way by a court but overturned because the appeals court said it had to goto the FLRA first. The fear mongering of the party cult crew is ridiculous. Extend the contract for 50 years then and reduce dues to a dollar. You don’t need to be out partying the union needs to be working.

Good luck with a republican controlled FLRA, (also can be circumvented by not allowing the FLRA a quorum in the first place).

Apples and oranges though because we get third party arbitration by law through one of them FAA reauthorizations. The executive could maybe pull some voodoo and say the law doesn't apply to them for whatever reason and force it to go to court while they fuck us in the meantime. But that's probably more political capital than they would be willing to expend.

 

[LennyA21]

You clearly were not around when Dubya imposed the white book and were employed under it's reign. Whenever the right controls the policy making... federal pay, benefits, and working conditions get put on the chopping block. That does not happen when the left has majority. 40% raises are unrealistic but the left keeps the food on the table. The more you vote R, the closer you get to letting the leopard eat your face. Why vote for a group that constantly puts your pay and benefits under fire?

I don’t vote red and I was in during the white book.

Good luck with a republican controlled FLRA, (also can be circumvented by not allowing the FLRA a quorum in the first place).

Apples and oranges though because we get third party arbitration by law through one of them FAA reauthorizations. The executive could maybe pull some voodoo and say the law doesn't apply to them for whatever reason and force it to go to court while they fuck us in the meantime. But that's probably more political capital than they would be willing to expend.

So they could go to the courts after the FLRA rules unless they just never get around to ruling on it

 

[bton]

I don’t vote red and I was in during the white book.

If that's true then you should be able to see how an unfavorable contract and / or working conditions can get pushed through.

 

[Soul_Controller]

So they could go to the courts after the FLRA rules unless they just never get around to ruling on it

Not allowing a quorum is a strong possibility. The next term is up in 2025. Trump could just not appoint anyone.

 

[ATC Zero]

Best case? Nick gets an extension in the next 2 months. Highly unlikely.

Worst case, Trump implements his EOs, we "don't negotiate in a timely manner" per his EOs, then the Agency then imposes a contract that makes the white book look desirable.

I mean if a contract expires doesn’t it automatically trigger a 1 year extension? In theory we would be under the slate book until July 2027….and then if no contract talks for the July 2027 expiration, that’s unknown territory. Would we be just like other government employees with no union without a contract?
Or do I have this completely wrong here.

There are quite a few government employees not covered by a union: just in ATC FLM and on up….only difference I see between them and us is they have to dress business casual and actually get leave approved, and performance based raises.

 

[Soul_Controller]

I mean if a contract expires doesn’t it automatically trigger a 1 year extension? In theory we would be under the slate book until July 2027….and then if no contract talks for the July 2027 expiration, that’s unknown territory. Would we be just like other government employees with no union without a contract?
Or do I have this completely wrong here.

There are quite a few government employees not covered by a union: just in ATC FLM and on up….only difference I see between them and us is they have to dress business casual and actually get leave approved, and performance based raises.

Not to get all Marxist but managerial class solidarity will never extend to the front line. They want it to be easier to fire you, not themselves.

 

[ATC Zero]

Not to get all Marxist but managerial class solidarity will never extend to the front line. They want it to be easier to fire you, not themselves.

I mean with Elon and the other guy I would think if they start looking at FAA closely a lot of FLM, SSS and extra people with jobs that don’t plug in will be eliminated or forced back to the boards if they can get a medical.

 

[GroundClutter]

I mean with Elon and the other guy I would think if they start looking at FAA closely a lot of FLM, SSS and extra people with jobs that don’t plug in will be eliminated or forced back to the boards if they can get a medical.

Sure would help staffing

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

Serious question: do you guys believe there isn’t government bloat and excess spending? We see it every day in the FAA. Think of all the staff specialists, the people who had their medical pulled 2 years ago who are waiting on paperwork to clear the flight surgeon, the people who clearly aren’t going to make it through training taking in $100,000+ since they took half on the go and use the contract to hang around way longer than they should, etc. Millions of wasted dollars just in my facility alone, and we’re a drop in the bucket of the federal workforce.

 

[LennyA21]

If that's true then you should be able to see how an unfavorable contract and / or working conditions can get pushed through.

No ones explaining how it could be pushed through with binding arbitration. We didn’t have that before the white book and it was codified after.

 

[N90-EWR]

I hope that whoever Trump appoints as secretary of transportation goes in and cleans house. Anyone and everyone involved in that split EWR from N90 to PHL deserves to be fired! Unfortunately I fear that only the very top people will get canned, and the mid and lower level morons that were behind the move will survive. Trump said he’ll “clean the swamp” and if there’s a swamp that deserves to be cleaned is the FAA’s!

 

[PooseMaGoose]

I hope that whoever Trump appoints as secretary of transportation goes in and cleans house. Anyone and everyone involved in that split EWR from N90 to PHL deserves to be fired! Unfortunately I fear that only the very top people will get canned, and the mid and lower level morons that were behind the move will survive. Trump said he’ll “clean the swamp” and if there’s a swamp that deserves to be cleaned is the FAA’s!

Assuming the FAA's house gets cleaned, my guess is that positions top to bottom involved in anything other than what is congressionally defined will be scrutinized first and foremost. The federal aviation act of 1958 defines the intended roles and responsibilities of the agency. After trimming the fat which falls outside of what's defined in this act, I would say anything of a regulatory, certification, and environmental nature would be next in line for review.

There are over 45,000 people that work in the FAA alone. There are currently under 11,000 CPCs. Given that safety and air traffic management is one of the top priorities (if not THE top priority) of what is congressionally defined for the FAA, there's a lot to look at in the 30-some thousand people that do non-air traffic related work.

 

[bton]

I mean if a contract expires doesn’t it automatically trigger a 1 year extension? In theory we would be under the slate book until July 2027….and then if no contract talks for the July 2027 expiration, that’s unknown territory. Would we be just like other government employees with no union without a contract?
Or do I have this completely wrong here.

There are quite a few government employees not covered by a union: just in ATC FLM and on up….only difference I see between them and us is they have to dress business casual and actually get leave approved, and performance based raises.

During the white book performance based raises were nothing more than a popularity contest for who the supes liked. Don't be fooled, it's not a good thing especially when given up at the expense of other vastly more important items.

No ones explaining how it could be pushed through with binding arbitration. We didn’t have that before the white book and it was codified after.

Ahh didn't know that. I'll try to not be as cynical but it's hard when the writing is on the wall.

 

[ATC Zero]

During the white book performance based raises were nothing more than a popularity contest for who the supes liked. Don't be fooled, it's not a good thing especially when given up at the expense of other vastly more important items.

I worked through the white book I remember what it was like. I was simply comparing what I observe now under the slate book vs what it’s like to be in management from our view.