CPC Tower to Enroute

[corn4ahead]

For reference sake, I'll try to pull the complete data next time I'm in, but for now, just looking at the NEST data from 2013-2014, 20 people from tower only with no prior radar experience washed from a center. One from ZAB that came from TUS for reference. That's just a two year sample size on the unsuccessful people. It's quite common.
Is your FacRep, ATM, and training department fairly new at ZAB? It certainly sucks you've had to go through that. It's really just... bizarre. Like jdatc said, all the information is readily available for them to give you.

I don't have a reliable source, but I have heard through the grapevine that ZAB has a lot of issues in the training department. Maybe not recently, but probably in the past.

 

[X-Ray Lima]

For reference sake, I'll try to pull the complete data next time I'm in, but for now, just looking at the NEST data from 2013-2014, 20 people from tower only with no prior radar experience washed from a center. One from ZAB that came from TUS for reference. That's just a two year sample size on the unsuccessful people. It's quite common.
Is your FacRep, ATM, and training department fairly new at ZAB? It certainly sucks you've had to go through that. It's really just... bizarre. Like jdatc said, all the information is readily available for them to give you.

I understand your pulling this data from NEST, but how do you know they werent previously certified at an up/down piror going to the tower only facility, had military or DOD radar experience? They couldve been hardships too. My entire FAC said they never heard of this happening prior to yours truly working through the door. How is this possible, if its as common as you say it is? Nobody could believe they sent me from a tower with no radar experiance or OKC training. Do you personally know anyone, piror to NECPT that came to a center with no radar experiance or OKC? All the data you can send me would be greatly appreciated. I really want contact these people. It woud also be amazing to see the success rate of these people. I never bothered to look because I though it never happened until now. PM me if you have any questions. Thx!

 

[X-Ray Lima]

I don't have a reliable source, but I have heard through the grapevine that ZAB has a lot of issues in the training department. Maybe not decently, but probably in the past.

Ive heard that other centers were coming to ZAB to copy their training program because they are having such great sucess. Im talking about the past 5 years. I have no clue what happened prior.

 

[Turn Right or Die]

Lvl 5 tower I'm at has sent 3 people to a lvl 12 center. All certified with no radar exp.

 

[breakaway2000]

I understand your pulling this data from NEST, but how do you know they werent previously certified at an up/down piror going to the tower only facility, had military or DOD radar experience?

It'll list prior certifications and hiring source CTI, GenPub, VRA, etc.

They couldve been hardships too.

Hardships can only go up 3 levels from their highest certified facility.

My entire FAC said they never heard of this happening prior to yours truly working through the door. How is this possible, if its as common as you say it is?

Your center accounts for 3.3% of the Enroute workforce. There are 20 CONUS centers and 4 OCONUS centers.

Do you personally know anyone, piror to NECPT that came to a center with no radar experiance or OKC?

Yes, they have all certified.

All the data you can send me would be greatly appreciated. I really want contact these people. It woud also be amazing to see the success rate of these people. I never bothered to look because I though it never happened until now. PM me if you have any questions. Thx!

Given your struggles in training, at this point, it appears you're trying to gather information to use in a potential/future TRB. There's a lot I will help people with, but I don't believe in bringing specific people/experiences into a TRB. All the information you seek can be found on the KSN, you just need to put in the effort to find it.

 

[X-Ray Lima]

It'll list prior certifications and hiring source CTI, GenPub, VRA, etc.


Hardships can only go up 3 levels from their highest certified facility.


Your center accounts for 3.3% of the Enroute workforce. There are 20 CONUS centers and 4 OCONUS centers.


Yes, they have all certified.


Given your struggles in training, at this point, it appears you're trying to gather information to use in a potential/future TRB. There's a lot I will help people with, but I don't believe in bringing specific people/experiences into a TRB. All the information you seek can be found on the KSN, you just need to put in the effort to find it.

My training is going great. Im just amazed this happened at other facilities when I was told it never happens. Id like to ask these people what helped them the most through training. Ask them if I can contact them. Thanks!

 

[X-Ray Lima]

Lvl 5 tower I'm at has sent 3 people to a lvl 12 center. All certified with no radar exp.

Thats amazing! Were they selected before or after NCEPT? Do you know if they went to OKC for training? PM me their contact info if they dont mind me contacting them. Thanks!

 

[OrangeYOGAMat]

To clean up a few things...
- Tower to Center was still common pre-NCEPT. Unfortunately, quality of training program's vary wildly from center to center. Some centers prefer a Radar ticket, like UScolt45 said, other centers prefer Tower only to teach from the ground up.
- Center CPC's who transfer to the Terminal environment are rarely, if ever, sent to the academy. In fact, the language is identical in the 3120.4 for each. See below...
a. CPCs transferring from the En Route option to the Terminal option or from the Terminal option to the En Route option need not attend initial qualification training for the new option or facility type at the FAA Academy. The specialist will be entered into the appropriate stage of field training as determined by the receiving facility ATM.

While your situation is unfortunate, the enroute academy curriculum is available to all CPC's on the FAA intranet. If anyone is in the process of making the jump from terminal to enroute and you want a better 'base' before you start, I can point you in the right direction on where to find the information.

To clean up a few things...
- Tower to Center was still common pre-NCEPT. Unfortunately, quality of training program's vary wildly from center to center. Some centers prefer a Radar ticket, like UScolt45 said, other centers prefer Tower only to teach from the ground up.
- Center CPC's who transfer to the Terminal environment are rarely, if ever, sent to the academy. In fact, the language is identical in the 3120.4 for each. See below...
a. CPCs transferring from the En Route option to the Terminal option or from the Terminal option to the En Route option need not attend initial qualification training for the new option or facility type at the FAA Academy. The specialist will be entered into the appropriate stage of field training as determined by the receiving facility ATM.

While your situation is unfortunate, the enroute academy curriculum is available to all CPC's on the FAA intranet. If anyone is in the process of making the jump from terminal to enroute and you want a better 'base' before you start, I can point you in the right direction on where to find the information.

I'm interested in making the jump, where should I go on the intranet?

 

[X-Ray Lima]

It'll list prior certifications and hiring source CTI, GenPub, VRA, etc.

Any luck?

 

[breakaway2000]

I'm interested in making the jump, where should I go on the intranet?

PM sent.

 

[Move78]

PM sent.

would also like that PM please thank you

 

[MikeyMike]

x3 breakaway! Appreciate it

 

[X-Ray Lima]

PM sent.

Did you find that list?

 

[breakaway2000]

Did you find that list?

To reiterate, it appears you're searching for data and contact information to prepare for a TRB. I don't believe in bringing outside information as an attempt to justify training struggles at your facility.
The information is available on the KSN. It takes effort to be a good trainee and it will take effort for you to find the information on the KSN. You have to be willing to put forth the effort.

 

[Move78]

For the record: I make 0 assumptions about the @X-Ray Lima context.
But @breakaway2000 has seen slugs get recycled. With 2 eyes. Bet the farm on that.

 

[X-Ray Lima]

To reiterate, it appears you're searching for data and contact information to prepare for a TRB. I don't believe in bringing outside information as an attempt to justify training struggles at your facility.
The information is available on the KSN. It takes effort to be a good trainee and it will take effort for you to find the information on the KSN. You have to be willing to put forth the effort.

For the third time, nobody is going to a TRB! You said you were going to provide a list. Back your argument with facts. It sounds like you tried pulling this list and couldnt find more than a handfull of people prior to NCEPT. I just want the data to show my ATM and Sup.

 

[CaptainObvious]

For the third time, nobody is going to a TRB! You said you were going to provide a list. Back your argument with facts. It sounds like you tried pulling this list and couldnt find more than a handfull of people prior to NCEPT. I just want the data to show my ATM and Sup.

For what purpose.

 

[CaptainObvious]

@breakaway2000 could you pm me where to find the enroute curriculum info?

 

[X-Ray Lima]

For what purpose.

Just to tell them there're other facilities out there with my same situation. I sat around for 4 months because they couldnt come up with a training plan for me. Even though I had a 2 year release date, go figure! I want them to connect with these other facilities so they can copy their plan for people like myself. Nobody should have to deal with the BS I went through. Training is bad enough when theres a plan in place, not developing one on the fly and seeing what sticks. I was pulled from the floor once because they forgot to give me nonradar classes, this was only discoved because we had a radar outage on my sector and my trainner said mark your strips and apreq. a TOCP, I had no clue what I was doing! I thought I was going to learn all that on the floor, they expected me to know this however I was never taught. I want to do anything I can to help the next person that walks in my facility, in my situation. It sucked being on the short bus, nobody should ever experience this!