Florida Surge

[corn4ahead]

The only thing I've taken from this thread is that every single facility should be a 13, and we all work the craziest operations, vfr tower to enroute.

Except then someone would complain saying they should be a 14.

 

[Mike Kilo]

Except then someone would complain saying they should be a 14.

Can’t wait for abacus to drop ZSE and ZAN to 8s ?

 

[CoffeeIV]

So I don't know a whole lot or really anything about Abacus. Will it actually help most facilities or are we all going to get fucked?

 

[CaptainObvious]

So I don't know a whole lot or really anything about Abacus. Will it actually help most facilities or are we all going to get fucked?

If you’re at a terminal facility it doesn’t matter to you

 

[BDUB]

So I don't know a whole lot or really anything about Abacus. Will it actually help most facilities or are we all going to get fucked?

Probably just be something like every facility in the NAS drops a lvl so they can pay us all less because FAA ??‍♂️?

 

[fivebyfive]

If you’re at a terminal facility it doesn’t matter to you

Not necessarily true. I'll believe it when I see it but from what I've been told, Abacus is a lot more robust in what it can do and track. There are some items that NATCA will try and negotiate to be included in the TCI formula as a result. For instance, they plan to make a change so that sustained operations of longer than 30 minutes will count again.
For terminal folks, I believe they would also like to add some sort of ground complexity formula based on operations and size of the airport. That would really help places like MDW, DCA, LGA, SAN, etc.

 

[Ibreezeby]

Probably just be something like every facility in the NAS drops a lvl so they can pay us all less because FAA ??‍♂️?

‘hey, I know we’re short staffed, and it’s hard to get people to stay in certain locations, let pay them less now!’

 

[Mike Kilo]

If you’re at a terminal facility it doesn’t matter to you

Says every FAA facility. Makes more sense to use one program for the whole NAS with different qualifiers.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Not necessarily true. I'll believe it when I see it but from what I've been told, Abacus is a lot more robust in what it can do and track. There are some items that NATCA will try and negotiate to be included in the TCI formula as a result. For instance, they plan to make a change so that sustained operations of longer than 30 minutes will count again.
For terminal folks, I believe they would also like to add some sort of ground complexity formula based on operations and size of the airport. That would really help places like MDW, DCA, LGA, SAN, etc.

Because every radar controller knows photo flights should count for WAY more than they currently do. Those guys are a pain for hours...

 

[jdatc]

Because every radar controller knows photo flights should count for WAY more than they currently do. Those guys are a pain for hours...

Survey / photo flights in the bravo should be worth triple!

Then a multiplier for every map they send you that is illegible.

Plus a multiplier for every time the camera messes up and they have to start the run again.

Level 13 here we go!

 

[CaptainObvious]

Says every FAA facility. Makes more sense to use one program for the whole NAS with different qualifiers.


View attachment 7696

What I don’t get, is how there was a way for terminal facilities to count for years but apparently not enroute

 

[julietoscar]

Survey / photo flights in the bravo should be worth triple!

Then a multiplier for every map they send you that is illegible.

Plus a multiplier for every time the camera messes up and they have to start the run again.

Level 13 here we go!

"God DAMN IT! what in the MOTHER FUCK!"

 

[Hal9000]

Prob bc FL was one of the only states without lockdowns during Covid. But the traffic has been consistent for a while now.


thanks

Likely correct, the CDC said the increased pax numbers are mostly out-of-state coroners and morticians being flown in to handle the aftermath.

 

[GMX]

Likely correct, the CDC said the increased pax numbers are mostly out-of-state coroners and morticians being flown in to handle the aftermath.

 

[GMX]

Because every radar controller knows photo flights should count for WAY more than they currently do. Those guys are a pain for hours...

Also PAJA. Especially when there are 2 AC that jump over the same area and they go up at the same time and CACA going off the whole time while you call traffic a bunch of times until they say they're talking to each other and it's "cool". The the jumpers go and the plane divebombs them, trying to beat them down to do another run for another fee. They probably robbed a bank first and need to hit the waves.

 

[HaZarDouZ]

Because they were an 11 in 2008 and it’s been frozen in time

?? 100% accurate

VFRs are .5 in enroute


It’s based on an arbitrary formula that’s meant to represent complexity and fails miserably in some cases. Some facilities’ type of traffic gets over represented in the formula and some get screwed. The center issue is larger though because the union has allowed the agency to just ignore the requirements in the contract for Enroute Facility Pay Levels because apparently they can’t figure out how to count traffic in ERAM. Gave Lockheed 2 Billion dollars.

This is what I’ve heard also which is why that new traffic count system is being implemented. ZMA hired a lawyer to tally everything apparently but from what I heard he ended up retiring and left ZMA holding the bag. Agency was more than happy to move on not needing to upgrade the facility. How did FAA give Lockheed 2 Billion and for what reason?

Definitely do more work than a tower. As for an approach control, idk. There are so many factors. I don’t think a high sector in a center has any business comparing themselves to a high level approach control. You start talking low sectors and many could definitely make the argument.

Well I can tell you that my area is has 7 sectors 3 being high altitude. We also use 3 mile separation in an ENROUTE environment because it’s impossible to use 5. We literally work as an approach control and in one sector specifically we offer approach control services to 5 different airports even with half the sectors airspace having military and restricted airspace that goes active. It’s a shit show lol.

Anyone know when ABACUS will be finally implemented or when the current timetable is? Last I heard this fall but it appears this got pushed back. Also I wonder how many employees will leave the union once their facilities get downgraded out of spite? ?

 

[GulfCharlie]

Well I can tell you that my area is has 7 sectors 3 being high altitude. We also use 3 mile separation in an ENROUTE environment because it’s impossible to use 5. We literally work as an approach control and in one sector specifically we offer approach control services to 5 different airports even with half the sectors airspace having military and restricted airspace that goes active. It’s a shit show lol.

Key West sector is that you?

 

[Move78]

Anyone know when ABACUS will be finally implemented or when the current timetable is? Last I heard this fall but it appears this got pushed back. Also I wonder how many employees will leave the union once their facilities get downgraded out of spite? ?

The ones that get downgraded shoulda been downgraded years ago. Doesn’t seem to make sense to quit because you got overpaid for years.
You’d think ones that will be angry are the ones that get upgraded because how long were they underpaid for? I’m sure the agency’s response will be ‘sorry we’ll never know’

 

[Mc15]

?? 100% accurate


This is what I’ve heard also which is why that new traffic count system is being implemented. ZMA hired a lawyer to tally everything apparently but from what I heard he ended up retiring and left ZMA holding the bag. Agency was more than happy to move on not needing to upgrade the facility. How did FAA give Lockheed 2 Billion and for what reason?


Well I can tell you that my area is has 7 sectors 3 being high altitude. We also use 3 mile separation in an ENROUTE environment because it’s impossible to use 5. We literally work as an approach control and in one sector specifically we offer approach control services to 5 different airports even with half the sectors airspace having military and restricted airspace that goes active. It’s a shit show lol.

Anyone know when ABACUS will be finally implemented or when the current timetable is? Last I heard this fall but it appears this got pushed back. Also I wonder how many employees will leave the union once their facilities get downgraded out of spite? ?

What sector

 

[CaptainObvious]

?? 100% accurate


This is what I’ve heard also which is why that new traffic count system is being implemented. ZMA hired a lawyer to tally everything apparently but from what I heard he ended up retiring and left ZMA holding the bag. Agency was more than happy to move on not needing to upgrade the facility. How did FAA give Lockheed 2 Billion and for what reason?


Well I can tell you that my area is has 7 sectors 3 being high altitude. We also use 3 mile separation in an ENROUTE environment because it’s impossible to use 5. We literally work as an approach control and in one sector specifically we offer approach control services to 5 different airports even with half the sectors airspace having military and restricted airspace that goes active. It’s a shit show lol.

Anyone know when ABACUS will be finally implemented or when the current timetable is? Last I heard this fall but it appears this got pushed back. Also I wonder how many employees will leave the union once their facilities get downgraded out of spite? ?

Considering they’ll save pay on a downgrade? Probably none